[Pristine Clean]

OK,

As the title says, How open are you when you submit a cleaning proposal to a commercial client.

Do you reveal your overheads for that contract, cost of chemicals, even your profit.

regards


Dave

[Daria Taylor]

i wouldnt revel profits and overheads, why does they need to know?

regards dash t

[newbroom]

Simple answer to this would your client reveal thier operating costs profit etc to you.

It really is a no brainer

[Nick Head]

Dear All

Personally I prefer Price Transparency - engenders more trust and helps the customer understand how their charge is made up - I have never had a problem with any customer by being open with them. In fact as long as I was not greedy (which I never was) most welcomed and totally understood the need to make a profit and cover my overheads.

This is I guess is a bit controversial but it is just my opinion for what it is worth.

Nick

[Pristine Clean]

Yes I am with you there Nick.

The reason I was asking is because on large tenders, not quotations... Tender they ask for every nook and cranny to be explained and revealed.

You are given the budget range and if you cannot make it worth while in there decided budget you dont get a chance.

In many tenders we have filed they want to know the profit margins, the complete break down of all costs and it has to be accurate in most cases.

I was just wondering if other companies did the same for a quotation. By the looks of it... i would say not all do.

Dave

[Nick Head]

Dave

If you need any help in bidding for tenders - drop me a line - I can perhaps give you an insight from a buyer's/FM's perspective.

Nick

[Pristine Clean]

Thanks Nick,

Very grateful indeed.

You might regret offering

Cheers


Dave

[Daria Taylor]

Yes I am with you there Nick.

The reason I was asking is because on large tenders, not quotations... Tender they ask for every nook and cranny to be explained and revealed.

You are given the budget range and if you cannot make it worth while in there decided budget you dont get a chance.

In many tenders we have filed they want to know the profit margins, the complete break down of all costs and it has to be accurate in most cases.

I was just wondering if other companies did the same for a quotation. By the looks of it... i would say not all do.

Dave

Dave,

tenders are different to normal contracts, the reason why they ask for every detail is so they know that when you are doing a job exactly at what stage you are and how much is costing you up to then and therefore you cannot ask for more than you have done. I dont know how it works in cleaning but from studying construction and with Husband as a QS, i am very familiar as to how tenders are done and dealt with on sites, and the reasons why they want you to put everything down.

Nick please corect me if i'm wrong,

dash t

[Pristine Clean]

Hi Dash,

Yes I am aware that tenders are completely different to a quotation.

I was just marely asking the question as I purely wondered how open other people were with there quotations.

Also with most of the contracts that we have (Commercial Only) I have seen other quotations provided by competitors and they have been more open than I would have expected. So I wondered if it was the norm.

Dave

[Nick Head]

Hi Dash

The tender process is in essence a structured quotation process. Whilst tenders are often used in construction there are used for all types of procurement, including cleaning services.

The key principles of any tender process is value and transparency. Therefore, typically the tenders process requires a detailed analysis of the prices submitted  to ensure that the process remains tranparent and fair, and the successful company's bid offers the best value and is viable. Profit and Overheads are therefore an important component of this analysis. 

Construction type contracts (and therefore tenders) are significantly different to cleaning contracts. Generally "cleaning" tenders are issued for fixed period (normally 3 or 5 years) and therefore in these contract awards, the motive can never be the option for the awarding organisation for early termination. The only way an awarding body can terminate a contract of this type is breach of contract. This will be set out in the tender documentation. A contract let via a tender process, by a quotation or whatever, the statutory components, the protection for both parties and the available remedies are all the same. The only difference is perhaps whose T&Cs are used, tender procured services it is always the awarding organisation's and in other methods of procurement it is generally the contractor's that are used.

Hope this clarifies

Nick

[Daria Taylor]

Hi Dash

The tender process is in essence a structured quotation process. Whilst tenders are often used in construction there are used for all types of procurement, including cleaning services.

The key principles of any tender process is value and transparency. Therefore, typically the tenders process requires a detailed analysis of the prices submitted  to ensure that the process remains tranparent and fair, and the successful company's bid offers the best value and is viable. Profit and Overheads are therefore an important component of this analysis. 

Construction type contracts (and therefore tenders) are significantly different to cleaning contracts. Generally "cleaning" tenders are issued for fixed period (normally 3 or 5 years) and therefore in these contract awards, the motive can never be the option for the awarding organisation for early termination. The only way an awarding body can terminate a contract of this type is breach of contract. This will be set out in the tender documentation. A contract let via a tender process, by a quotation or whatever, the statutory components, the protection for both parties and the available remedies are all the same. The only difference is perhaps whose T&Cs are used, tender procured services it is always the awarding organisation's and in other methods of procurement it is generally the contractor's that are used.

Hope this clarifies

Nick

Hello Again Nick,

Well it is very much same to construction then, as in their tenders they can’t really terminate contract either until all the works are carried out. They can obviously make additions to their contracts as well as reductions, but if they do decide that, perhaps you are not doing so well on the job and they wish to take so much of the work which has already been contracted to you, then they will just pay you loss of profits and that often the reason why they need to know what are your overheads and profit, plus if you let’s say already attempted the works they no longer wish for you to carry out, they will usually pay for the materials used as well as loss of profits. It obviously depends on the type of contracts and T & C's as well. So I am guessing it works same way with cleaning industry.

As with regards to let’s say giving out my profits and overheads to clients such as commercial/office cleaning clients, I don’t see it as a necessary procedure.

regards
dash t

[Colin Stokes]

Maybe its slightly different for us; we work for and are instructed by Managing Agents on communal buildings on behalf of lessees (who actually pay our bills via their service charge) therefore as the agents have to be seen to be getting best deal on behalf of their clients we always include a % figure for profit.

[Nick Head]

Dear All

I really do not want to prolong any debate on this, but really I think perhaps I have not made my point clear. Price transparency is a choice - I prefer it but it is up to the individual supplier.

Tenders are something separate and can prescribe full disclosure - I was merely trying to explain why - I should have explained my background - I am currently the lead in a Central Government FM team procuring and managing about £50m worth of FM services, including both cleaning and construction type work. So I do comment with a degree of experience and knowledge.

I hope this finally clears up any confusion

Nick

[Pristine Clean]

Hi Nick,

I am only going to say Gulp!

Speak to you soon. Dont forget Nick this is the joys of a forum.

Dave

[Nick Head]

Dave and all

Sorry if my last post seems a bit strong - it was not intended - please accept my apologies!

Dave please stop gulpping and I understand the joys of the forum!

Nick

[Daria Taylor]

Dear All

I really do not want to prolong any debate on this, but really I think perhaps I have not made my point clear. Price transparency is a choice - I prefer it but it is up to the individual supplier.

Tenders are something separate and can prescribe full disclosure - I was merely trying to explain why - I should have explained my background - I am currently the lead in a Central Government FM team procuring and managing about £50m worth of FM services, including both cleaning and construction type work. So I do comment with a degree of experience and knowledge.

I hope this finally clears up any confusion

Nick

Nick,

Please do not think I was in any way arguing with you or trying to disagree, I was actually asking you if I was correct or not, as it's always good to learn from people to know. I have expressed my opinion with some degree of experience, obviously not as much as yours and therefore asked if you thought I was rather wrong in what I was saying. 

So here we go,
Perhaps I should stop commenting as I have noticed that many people seem to think my comments are very argumentative.

Dash t

[Nick Head]

Dash

Don't stop commenting - ignore my post - it was badly worded - I have taken no offence by yours and hope you will not take any by mine.

Nick

[Daria Taylor]

Dash

Don't stop commenting - ignore my post - it was badly worded - I have taken no offence by yours and hope you will not take any by mine.

Nick

Hello again Nick,

Dont worry i didnt take no offence by your post at all, as i have mentioned in my prevoius post. So it's all ok now

regards
dash t

[Pristine Clean]

Gee,

With all of your experiences put together

I feel I am just not worthy. 

wheres my shotgun.

Dave