[Ian Mason]

Hi all,

I am determined to start up soon as a trad window cleaner, & want to concentrate on mainly residental/council homes.

I have questions about ladders though. I want to buy a 3.5 mtr (12`) double extension pointer, & want to fit wider articulated feet, but notice that some of these ladders have splayed out legs!

With safety in mind, what should I go for? From what I can work out, splayed legs with articulated feet would not sit flat, & also at 525mm, would not work with a Rojak anti slip device.

If anyone could help with this, then I would be most grateful, & thanks for your time.

[woody1]

I think you should just get normal ladders for top floor and a decent light pair of step ladders for bottoms i have been cleaning 6 odd years and never used a pointer

[Martin ccs]

I think you should just get normal ladders for top floor and a decent light pair of step ladders for bottoms i have been cleaning 6 odd years and never used a pointer

i agree with that - pointers do have there place but on houses your better off with standard ladder and a pair of steps.

landsfords do good ladders.

steps are handy for getting ladder clamps on/off van and getting gates open and so on.

i think if you have no experience of window cleaning at all then see if anyone on this forum lives/works in your area and see if you can go round with them for a few days

[Mist A Bit]

I`ve alwayed used a standard double ext ladder and some step ladders, never had a pointer since i started 8years ago. im on the wfp pole now just done my first week with it
steve

[Martin ccs]

I`ve alwayed used a standard double ext ladder and some step ladders, never had a pointer since i started 8years ago. im on the wfp pole now just done my first week with it
steve

dont mean to go away from this post but how did it go with your first week wfp mate?

customers reaction, drying results and so on

im starting in the next few days.

[Mist A Bit]

most custys didn`t even ask about it, the results were great,(better than i thought they`d be), one custy wasn`t convinced that it would be any good but rang me the next day and said " you left my windows dripping wet and when i woke up next morning i couldn`t belive how cristal clear they were". Speed wise i was quicker even on the first clean. im happy and enjoyed using it.
steve

[Martin ccs]

most custys didn`t even ask about it, the results were great,(better than i thought they`d be), one custy wasn`t convinced that it would be any good but rang me the next day and said " you left my windows dripping wet and when i woke up next morning i couldn`t belive how cristal clear they were". Speed wise i was quicker even on the first clean. im happy and enjoyed using it.
steve

good to hear. got the usual worries about the first clean and customers reaction. did you bother with a letter for the customers or just get on with it?

any probs with the soap on windows from previous trad cleans.

[Ian W]

I have 2 sets of pointers and they are both fitted with articulated feet (they are fiddly to fit, but can be done). I started with standard ladders, but feel the pointers are better. I usually buy my ladders from Midland Ladders. They will fit the feet for you if you want.

[SteveAllan]

Midland Trade are doing the feet foc at the moment on their trade ladders mate.

[Mist A Bit]

had no props with soap on the glass i just took extra time to rinse after brushing. i was planning to do a letter but in the end i just got on with it. I`ve got some higher class custys coming up in a few weeks so might do a letter for them. My biggest worry to be honest was all the dripping water but noticed it stops dripping within a few mins.
I have some work i`l not be using the wfp due to access untill i get a trolly, im not going to be snobby about using ladders i think they still have their use.

steve

[Ian Mason]

Hi again,

Thank you for the replies!

Looking at the standard ladders, & cost compared to pointers, it would save me money, but I don`t standard ladders twist if the top surface is uneven?

Thanks again.

[Martin ccs]

not if you use them properly. i think (and is only me view) that standard ladders are safer/better than pointers.

get a good ladder, not some cheap and too light rubbish.

its your safety and is best to get the best you can afford.

you really are best off finding someone local to help you out for a day or two - can get the hang of window cleaning and you sound like you have never really used a ladder before.

time is money with window cleaning and if you are too slow up and down a ladder you wont make alot of money.

we all make window cleaning look easy but it can be hard at times

alot of chaps now go straight for wfp cleaning.

[jonnyald]

spend a bit of time going around checking out the weight of ladders before youbuy   is my tip. nothings worse than a real heavy ladder  youve got to cart it thru alleyways etc .  you want it to be your friend not enemy .  only get one with D shape rungs , the ones with round or square rungs hurt your feet

[Bobs Window Cleaning]

not if you use them properly. i think (and is only me view) that standard ladders are safer/better than pointers.

get a good ladder, not some cheap and too light rubbish.

its your safety and is best to get the best you can afford.

you really are best off finding someone local to help you out for a day or two - can get the hang of window cleaning and you sound like you have never really used a ladder before.

time is money with window cleaning and if you are too slow up and down a ladder you wont make alot of money.

we all make window cleaning look easy but it can be hard at times

alot of chaps now go straight for wfp cleaning.

Dont know why you think pointers are less safer than standards ones 

They are made for window cleaning and are very safe. With normal ladder you place the top of the ladder at the sill or above the window, both of these can be very unsafe, where as the pointer can sit on the vertical frame or to the side of the fame, making the job much easier.

Just my opinion tho 

[Ian Lancaster]

The original (Shaftesbury) "Combination" ladder was designed by window cleaners for window cleaners back in the days when there was no 'Elf 'n' Safety' and they all had to know what they were doing and looked out for each other.  The Shaftesbury ladder was designed to be used in just about any situation a window cleaner would come up against.  A standard parallel ladder will only be stable if all four ends are in contact with the ground and the building.  This is impossible to achieve in many situations.

The 'pointer' ladder was designed to be perfectly safe in 99.9% of situations.  Anyone with a basic knowledge of geometry will tell you that any three points always lie in the same plane, in other words when you set a 'pointer' both feet and the top will be in contact with the ground/wall and it will not 'rock'.  The reason the 'pointer' has splayed feet is to overcome the fact that the top is too narrow to prevent the ladder turning sideways so the bottom is made much wider to increase the stability.

Thes ladders are the safest you can use for window cleaning IF YOU KNOW HOW TO USE THEM.  The problem is most window cleaners these days come into the trade with little or no training from people who know what they're doing

Regardless of what today's Elf and Safety "experts" may tell you,  these ladders were designed to be used in complete safety without the need for them to be anchored/tied or stood on 'stoppers' or other 'ladder stabilising devices'.

WHY WOULD YOU USE A LADDER THAT IS INTENDED FOR PAINTERS/BUILDERS ETC, WHO WILL SPEND A LONG TIME AT EACH POSITION AND WHICH IS NOT SUITABLE FOR A TRADE THAT REQUIRES FREQUENT MOVES ON UNEVEN GROUND WHEN THE IDEAL TOOL IS THERE FOR THE ASKING?

All you need is a few hours training from someone who was trained by real 'old time' experts and has spent a lifetime running up and down 'pointers' :

Incidentally: the 'pointer' is more properly called the 'tree bottomed point' and was a development of the orchard ladders used by fruit pickers.  There are some pointed ladders on the market which do not have splayed feet.  NEVER USE ONE OF THESE, they are dangerous, will twist unless you keep all of yourself between the styles and ought to be banned.

[Slash]

Pointers are far safer than standard ladders for window cleaning,thats why they are designed like that,you can actually clean better too as the rubber block is designed for placeing on the frame work and allows you to clean the windows with ease and comfort,what are you guys on ,standard ladders are better than pointers
Get a grip

[Ian Mason]

Hi again all,

Thank you for all of your replies!

It is good to have a selection of different views with explanations of the pro`s & cons.

I have seen a couple of local window cleaners with, what look like pointers with the very narrow base, which don`t look too sturdy, & I think Ian Lancaster has worded it spot on, with regards to the risk of it twisting if you weight is outside the stiles.

Thanks again.

Ian

[Ian_Giles]

Ian Lancaster saved me the trouble or writing a long reply, totally agree with him! 

Pointer ladders are far safer than step ladders, on site work H & S say that step ladders should only be used for inspection/access and short duration work.

I was on one site doing an initial clean where a H & S inspector called in and threatened to close the site unless the electricians lost the steps and used proper platforms instead...including guard rails and kick boards...all this for working with their feet no more than 3 feet off the ground fixing ceiling lights.

Also;

working off ladders not so easy as many might think, if you haven't done it before then find a tradesman (not necessarily a window cleaner) and get them to show you the ropes so to speak.

Ian

[Sapphire Window Cleaning]

Hi all,

I am determined to start up soon as a trad window cleaner, & want to concentrate on mainly residental/council homes.

I have questions about ladders though. I want to buy a 3.5 mtr (12`) double extension pointer, & want to fit wider articulated feet, but notice that some of these ladders have splayed out legs!

With safety in mind, what should I go for? From what I can work out, splayed legs with articulated feet would not sit flat, & also at 525mm, would not work with a Rojak anti slip device.

If anyone could help with this, then I would be most grateful, & thanks for your time.

Rojak pads are available in a few sizes, I am sure they do one for those size pointers.




Matt

[s.w.c]

when i did trad i always had a Ramsey A-pointer myself i would rather have one than a standard ladder any day.