[Sean Dyer]

o ok

i thought you meant when you were trad all the time

wasnt trying to brag £80 in a morning is hardly bragging lol

sometimes that takes an hour sometime half a day

its about the long haul this game and consistency

[dazmond]

i think given my present circumstances im making the right decision.my girlfriend is not v.well and and my brother got 2 kids its not practical to have a van.i like havin the comfort of a car.also camping in summer etc.i like to keep my life as simple as possible!it makes me happier! .i can pay my bills,go on holiday etc,etc.im upping some of my underpriced work and slowly getting better paying work.im doing ok.i dont think trad will die out as some of the houses i clean u need to get on the roof to clean some of the windows or go over the flat roof!wfp is in the minority on domestics IMO.most people never heard of wfp and care even less near where i live!

[ccmids]

dazmond it sounds like your trying to convince your self that wfp is no good ,it is good and can  be a better finish than trad on some windows , you could try a back pack .

[Clive McDonald]

i agree in a flat it's hard to do.I'm always trying to tell other people what they should do and run their lives as lots on here will testify
No one ever listens to me.Lots of us tried to convince squeaks for instance but got no where.In the end his personal circs dictated what he did and he made his own mind up.Thinking back it was pretty funny though, if his van didn't start on the slope he parked it on he had to push it back up.

[Sir Squeaky]

i agree in a flat it's hard to do.I'm always trying to tell other people what they should do and run their lives as lots on here will testify
No one ever listens to me.Lots of us tried to convince squeaks for instance but got no where.In the end his personal circs dictated what he did and he made his own mind up.Thinking back it was pretty funny though, if his van didn't start on the slope he parked it on he had to push it back up.

Blimey, you haven't forgotten much have you?
Did you have a different user name back then?

You're right, it was repetetive strain that caused me to change.
Now I've got it from pole work!

[mlscontractcleaner]

I guess it's horses for courses; if you spend long enough trying to convince yourself that WFP is no good you'll do it eventually.

Personally I would never go back to trad only; a fall from 3 stories made that an easy decision

WFP is brilliant; it's quicker, safer, equally as good when it comes to quality of work, allows you to gain work you couldn't possibly do from a ladder, the list goes on.

And I have only ever found ONE potential customer who wouldn't have her windows cleaned using wfp. I refused her custom! I have never lost an existing customer due to using wfp. Where this assumption that domestic customers don't like wfp come from I don't know but it's rubbish.

The day WILL come when, due to H+S, this decision is taken out of our hands and all the doubters WILL change to wfp. Can't wait

[dazmond]

obviously if it were made illegal to use ladders then i would go wfp.but they wont!i would never dream of using ladders on 2nd floor windows!above slippy porches etc, etc,.

[Ian Lancaster]

And before all the WFP guys say hang him, It's not the amount of work the trad guy can manage, he can employ too, just like WFP guys can.  

This may no longer be true.  The TWAH directive is aimed at employers who direct their employees to use ladders more so than sole trader window cleaners.

Requiring employees to use ladders in circumstances where WFP could be used may be illegal, and would certainly raise important issues in the event of the employee having an accident while following instructions from the employer to use a ladder.

[dazmond]

i wouldnt dream of employing!certainly not on ladders!i know plenty of window cleaners that do!and not legally!!asking for trouble IMO! : :

[matt]

i agree in a flat it's hard to do.I'm always trying to tell other people what they should do and run their lives as lots on here will testify
No one ever listens to me.Lots of us tried to convince squeaks for instance but got no where.In the end his personal circs dictated what he did and he made his own mind up.Thinking back it was pretty funny though, if his van didn't start on the slope he parked it on he had to push it back up.

Blimey, you haven't forgotten much have you?
Did you have a different user name back then?

You're right, it was repetetive strain that caused me to change.
Now I've got it from pole work!

slumpy is on his 39 name now, did he have a different name, wait till FTP reads that, he will need to hold his sides in very tightly

[matt]

You're right, it was repetetive strain that caused me to change.
Now I've got it from pole work!

i must not post

i must not post

i must not post

i must not post

i must not post

i must not post

i must not post

i must not post

i must not post

i must not post

i must not post

i must not post

i will let tosh post it 

go on tosh, he wants that post

[Gleaming windows]

When i came on this forum 3yrs ago there had been many trad/wfp debates.I found trad work hard, and the most i could earn was about £80 per day.I couldn't even imagine earning more than that.A guy posting on here did a sort of diary of his switch.He had eleven years standing then, and i notice you have fifteen now.

His posts were very instrumental in making me go wfp.In fact i found his posts very sad.To start with he was a very clever and able man, he posted superbly (he still does) and he had a brilliant technical grasp.He was very likeable and a lot of people followed what he had to say.As it happens i did not rate him as much of a business man though but you may have noticed that my judgements can be a bit harsh.

In any event he chronicled in detail how he gave all of his customers explanation and warning letters.He researched what pole and what system.He pre cleaned the frames to avoid problems on the penultimate trad clean. He had a lot of doubts.

Cutting to the chase he had very few problems, but what made me want to cry for him was that on day four of wfp working no harder than he normaly did and finishing quite early he beat his best ever day trad.I think the figure was £174.

Thanks Slumpy!   

Going WFP was the BEST!!! career move I have EVER made.

Not going WFP might be the worst youve made Daz.

Sorry mate, but if the main issue is the fact that you live on a first floor flat, rent a lockup.


Clive wanna see my new gutter brochure?? 

[lcwalker]

after quite a few months on ere mulling it all over and changing my mind like the weather ive decided to stay trad.

1.i live in 1st floor flat on a water meter.

2.cant afford a car AND a van!

3.over half my round v.compact 3 bedders,i dont think WFP will be faster on this work.

4.domestic custys dont like wfp!

5.easy to make a mess of windows with wfp


6.hassle with pumps,hoses etc

7.higher overheads,insurance,resin,poles,pumps etc

8.dont want to carry a ton of water about just to clean windows!!

9.hard to get a good finish when its even slightlywindy!

IMO what i have seen trad does a better job and the windows are dry when you leave what i find customers like.WFP is good for hard to reach windows and conservatories but as for maybe quickness i see know benefit.I reckon some of my smaller jobs would take longer.But at a later date i will consider a back pack or trolley for the hard to reach windows and conservatory roofs, but where i can get easy i will do trad as i can leave them dry imo the way it should be done.

[lcwalker]

dazmond it sounds like your trying to convince your self that wfp is no good ,it is good and can  be a better finish than trad on some windows , you could try a back pack .

Some windows what about the others?

[dazmond]

i think this ones gona run and run!keep it going lads!! ;Dim getting ready for work!

[cozy]

And before all the WFP guys say hang him, It's not the amount of work the trad guy can manage, he can employ too, just like WFP guys can.  

This may no longer be true.  The TWAH directive is aimed at employers who direct their employees to use ladders more so than sole trader window cleaners.

Requiring employees to use ladders in circumstances where WFP could be used may be illegal, and would certainly raise important issues in the event of the employee having an accident while following instructions from the employer to use a ladder.

You could be right there Ian, I've not thought about the UK laws. But do you see the point I'm trying to make? The trad guy would have a selling point to potential custies.

[cozy]

The day WILL come when, due to H+S, this decision is taken out of our hands and all the doubters WILL change to wfp. Can't wait

Why can't you wait? Why would you benefit from that?

[Helen]

Just think about this though. When it gets that far in UK, that 99% of window cleaners are WFP. There is an estate of lets say 2000 houses,  6 WC's clean there, 5 are WFP and 1 is trad, who woulld have the advantage for winning custies?
One of the 5 WFP 'ers
why? because if 99% are using WFP that would mean that it is the norm and what the majority of customers will use

 And before all the WFP guys say hang him, It's not the amount of work the trad guy can manage, he can employ too, just like WFP guys can. Has the trad guy got a better chance of getting more custies than the WFP guys? Because people prefer trad to WFP? What do you think?

[cozy]

Wont be a problem then will it Helen? So how I understand that, custies would prefer WFP, because they "know" it's the norm? The trad guy would eventually lose custies because they want the "norm".

[Mist A Bit]

i will always do some trad work. im going wfp by end jan as i`ve seen how its improved others businesses and made their life easier. i think its a great bit of kit but like alot of cleaners arnt used to big outlays in this type of work ie its always been a few quid here and their for some fairy and some rubbers, now its thousands of pounds to keep up with the times