[paul.g]

           I am looking for some advice with regard to the issue of disclaimers to customers where there is a risk of shrinkage to their carpet. I have had problems before where the carpet has came off the gripper and I have paid to have it refitted.

           Is it a good idea to have a disclaimer and if so is there a standard format I can use ?
   
            Or is it better to avoid ?

[Simon@arenaclean]

Disclaimers are fine in the right place. It's ok if you're cleaning a Belgian Wilton, do a search of the forums for loads of more detailed threads, because you can inform the customer it's a possibility. Disclaimers are to cover you when you have informed your customer there is a risk of damage, shrinkage etc and they give permission for you to go ahead and clean. In general terms I wouldn't just hand them out to everyone to cover me in case something went wrong.
Regards
Simon

[derek west]

can you identify carpets that shrink?
derek

[nevil]

I would think that if you are not prepared to take responability for the consequences of your cleaning you should not clean shrinkable carpets. Isn't that why our customers call us? because we know how to do the job.

[derek west]

i was working towards that point nev.
derek

[Simon@arenaclean]

I was trying to be polite using 'I' instead of 'you'. I've been accused of being harsh so i'm trying to mellow

[nevil]

I have a freind who has a roofing company. I am going to ask him if he has a disclaimer. Maybe something along the lines of.

Your roof is of a type that may not respond well to the repair work we are going to undertake. If your roof is left completly wrecked meaning you require a new one because of the measures we take we cannot be held responsible. Please sign here to agree to our terms and conditions............................


If we do wreck your roof while trying to fix the leak we very much hope you will consider using our company to replace the roof.

Many thanks Bodjet & Scarper.




I am not sure the customers would be too pleased.

 

[Mike Halliday]

A disclaimer is not worth the paper it is written on if you are proven to be negligent, if they can proof you could have taken precautions to stop it happening then  they can claim.

[paul.g]

  Thank you for some of your constructive comments but most of the replies seem to have fueled some already large egos. The roofing one and the crap about identifying carpets that shrink say an awful lot about you. These are the kind of pretentious Bull..... that turn people away from this forum. All I asked for was some advice.

   " i was working towards that point nev."

      Absolutely Brilliant  !

[derek west]

crap about identifying carpets?

what you on fella?

a disclaimer is a way of passing the buck for your inexperience.

i'll leave it there,

derek

[paul.g]

crap about identifying carpets?

what you on fella?

a disclaimer is a way of passing the buck for your inexperience.

i'll leave it there,

derek

Can you Identify carpet types?.... I'm not so sure. You seem a bit insecure.
I'll leave it there.

[Mike Osbourne]

BW carpets are notoriously varied in response to wet cleaning. You can take all the precautions you want and one day you will have one that flies off the grippers. Walking away is one option, but if a customer is making an informed decision for you to go ahead, why should you take the hit if it's the one in a hundred.

Surgeons do this everyday. Now Mr Smith we can operate and there is an 80% it will be successful and a 20% chance you will die under the knife. Now should YOU choose to go ahead please sign this form that says you understand what I have told you.

[paul.g]

BW carpets are notoriously varied in response to wet cleaning. You can take all the precautions you want and one day you will have one that flies off the grippers. Walking away is one option, but if a customer is making an informed decision for you to go ahead, why should you take the hit if it's the one in a hundred.

Surgeons do this everyday. Now Mr Smith we can operate and there is an 80% it will be successful and a 20% chance you will die under the knife. Now should YOU choose to go ahead please sign this form that says you understand what I have told you.

Well said mike . It's what I'm thinking. Is there anything formated that we could use? Thanks for ypur input.

[Mike Osbourne]

Another way to look at it is you are being paid for your expertise to lessen risk, give the customer options and make sure they get the best outcome for them.

For instance if a lady said to me I want you to clean it (BW) but no way do I want even the smallest risk of it shrinking, I would suggest I pad clean it and that it is not going to provide as good a clean as HWE, but it's there as an option.

Also the greater your skill (which comes from doing lots of them, not walking away!) gives you the best chance of lessening the risk if you do go ahead.

[Mike Halliday]

Surgeons do this everyday. Now Mr Smith we can operate and there is an 80% it will be successful and a 20% chance you will die under the knife. Now should YOU choose to go ahead please sign this form that says you understand what I have told you.

do you think signing a disclaimer gives the surgeon any protection at all if  the patent dies because they did something wrong?  

disclaimers can only protect against  unseen occurrences, they are not a total get out of jail card.

If I opened a door and it falls off its hinges, am I too blame? should I pay to have it put back on? of course not because I have not acted negligently

but if I kick the door open and it falls off should i pay to fix it?

[Mike Osbourne]

Where did the 'doing something wrong' come into  it?

Define 'doing something wrong' and who judges whether you did something wrong.

I think the key here is showing that you made sure the customer understood the potential risk and she signed something to that effect. If someone was sueing me for shrinking a BW I would much prefer to have that in my possession than not. And the chances are you are less likely to have someone take it further because you told them what may happen and they signed something to say they understood.

[Mike Halliday]

I agree that a disclaimer will show you explained the potential risk,  the point I'm trying to make is a signed disclaimer doesn't give you  carte blanche to do what ever you like, you still must act with appropriate diligence.

 

[jasonl]

As explained to me by a chartered loss adjustor 3 months ago.

If you use a disclaimer ,and have WRITTEN procedures for cleaning each type of fabric, and then follow that procedure , the customer has no claim against you in the event of an adverse outcome.

No disclaimer, no written procedure and an adverse outcome , the customer has a valid claim whether your fault or not.

As with most work based activities now , it is not sufficient to do the job correctly, you have to be trained, and document what you have done and why... think social work, banking, politics,medicine, teaching, carpet cleaning. The principle is the same.

[Mike Osbourne]

I see what you mean Mike and yes have to agree with that. Hiding behind a piece of paper if you cock up shouldn't and wouldn't get you off the hook.

Interesting point Jason. I have been on some training courses (not CC) and they say off the record to NOT go into too much detail as this gives potentially more ammunition against you.

[Cleancut]

crap about identifying carpets?

what you on fella?

a disclaimer is a way of passing the buck for your inexperience.

i'll leave it there,

derek

Can you Identify carpet types?.... I'm not so sure. You seem a bit insecure.
I'll leave it there.

crap about identifying carpets?

what you on fella?

a disclaimer is a way of passing the buck for your inexperience.

i'll leave it there,

derek

Can you Identify carpet types?.... I'm not so sure. You seem a bit insecure.
I'll leave it there.

 

As for identifying carpet types.....then this may help.....Natural fibers made from organic sources which might not have been chemically altered which include wool, cotton, silk, sea grass, jute and hemp are more easily damaged by chemicals which can cause shrinking, stain easily and leave water spot.  I think the key point is if not been chemically altered at source and hence a previous quote of coming accross 1 in 100! so I can see how this will be hard to detect but instead of a disclaimer this may help when informing customers in a proactive way.   Again it may help and I reckon I can hear the echo up and down the country from the customers homes!! lol