[JW1]

I picked up a customer today who came to me (a trad cleaner) because she wasn't happy with the WFP guy she had taken on to clean her 3 storey gaff.

I am just about to buy a van and wfp system after delaying for the last 2 years, so I asked her what her issues with the WFP were.

This is what she said;

1) She didn't think the windows were as clean as trad
2) The sills weren't cleaned
3) She thought the process had left scratches on her windows
4) The WFP guy charged too much citing high insurance costs as the 'reason'

Now don't pounce on this, because its no use having 20 WFP'ers saying "whoever did it obviously wasn't doing it properly etc etc... I clean my windows perfectly etc etc.... I've never had a complaint etc etc"

I understand that the customer might just be a whingebag as well.

But before I take the plunge into WFP (which is an inevitability) can I have your opinions on the above, in particular to point 3.

*runs for cover*

[R W C]

scratched glass if he used the stock to get bird poo off other then that no scratched glass

[GWCS]

3) wfp cleans the windows very well, it even removed dirt inside scratches and so will show up than they would being trad.

However if the previous window cleaner did not take care of where he put his brush (eg against a wall, on the ground he may of picked up some grit  in the brush and caused a scratch)

2) You cant clean the upper sills as good as being right up there. I advise my custies this and explain that their lower ones are wiped clean, but the upper are brushed and rinsed.

They get all their frames cleans rather than just wiped so get a better deal.. if they want the upper ledges being cleaned they pay extra for ladders and upvc cleaner.

[pingu]

Unless the chap has been using the edge of the brush (stock) to try and remove things such as bird poo etc I have my doubts whether the brush will scratch her glass...I mean the brushes are safe enough to clean car paint work with...so they should be ok for glass.

I have been called to one house where the ownerhad recently had the paint work done and she asked whether I had scratched her glass...I was very concerned but went to the house and the painters using sandpaper and a sanding machine had scratched the glass.

I think that point 3 is a red herring.

Cheers
Dave.

[daz1977]

custys dont like change, i dont understand how a soft brush can scratch a windows,  if that was the case  you wouldnt wash ur car at a car wash as it would end up covered in scratches lol   a lot like you to basically earn ur money and that means working up and down a ladder,   i have just bought a wfp system and am using it now, and have not had one custy complain about that over trad,

you might have to say to the women  that you will give her a demo on wfp by you and do the best clean ever

if she is still moaning you might have to just do it trad, or drop her

the way i look at it is if i fall and break my leg   custy aint ging to pay me to not clean ther windows and put food on my table,  wfp is safer

[TonyD]

custys dont like change, i dont understand how a soft brush can scratch a windows,  if that was the case  you wouldnt wash ur car at a car wash as it would end up covered in scratches lol   a lot like you to basically earn ur money and that means working up and down a ladder,   i have just bought a wfp system and am using it now, and have not had one custy complain about that over trad,

you might have to say to the women  that you will give her a demo on wfp by you and do the best clean ever

if she is still moaning you might have to just do it trad, or drop her

the way i look at it is if i fall and break my leg   custy aint ging to pay me to not clean ther windows and put food on my table,  wfp is safer

If you use a brushwash type car wash, you will end up with fine swirl type scratches, just the same as a soft brush would when used.  BUT it wouldn't scratch glass 
I just though I'd point out this as the last two comments said the brushes are fine on car paintwork, they aren't.  If you wash you're car with a soft sheepskin mit and rinse the mit before dipping it back into the shampoo, it will leave a car completely swirl free (these fine brush scratches are called cobweb swirl scratching).  I used to be a detailer and worked on lots of cars to remove car wash fine scratching.  Like this job I did on a few years old Saab that had only ever been through a brushwash at the supermarket  - Take a look at the 50/50 pics I took during work further down, this is the norm with cars that are washed with brushes or firm sponges -
http://www.cleanyourcar.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7296&highlight=


I don't think a brush would scratch glass by the way, just car clearcoat.

[ian1972]

at the end of the day some custys jut dont like it thats all it boils down to but you did say she moaned about his price sayinig he was to dear to me this sounds the only reason she dumped him just making excuses

[JW1]

at the end of the day some custys jut dont like it thats all it boils down to but you did say she moaned about his price sayinig he was to dear to me this sounds the only reason she dumped him just making excuses

This may be right, but wouldn't she know the price before he started (I don't know how many times he cleaned), and wouldn't she just have said I dropped him because he was too dear?

[ian1972]

lol i no wat you mean but to justify thereselves and make them feel better they make some random rubish up,its a fact

[JW1]

Yeah, fair point. We've all come across customers like that.  It's just that I have recently come across a lot of threads here and there which are giving me second thoughts;

Pro's;

1) will get me off the ladder
2) I can work quicker
3) i can get to previously unreachable windows
4) I can offer frames, fascias etc

Cons?

1) Outlay
2) Lot's of faffing around with kit (compared to bucket and ladder)
3) Customers not as happy (don't wanna risk this in current economy)
3) ...finished result not as good as trad...?

*runs for cover*

[Craig 72]

Regarding the scratches,I bet there's plenty of windows with scratches that customers aren't even aware of.Somebody comes along with this snazzy new window cleaning equipment and people inspect their windows closely to see if it's working.Any blemishes are easy to blame on it.Personally,unless you're a total moron I don't see how a wfp brush can cause scratching.
With the cill cleaning comment,Christ knows how she's expecting somebody to clean her 3rd storey window cills with trad?

[Mike #1]

wfp does'nt clean sills as well as trad but thats it , the outlay is worth it in the long term i would need to employ someone if i was trad so overall i'm quids in also after breaking my back working trad 7yrs ago i am not risking my neck working on a ladder 8 hrs a day and faffing about with gear was'nt it a pain when we all started trad like everything in life it's practice makes perfect

[Londoner]

You have to accept that there are a percentage of customers who won't like WFP. Overall I would say there is a far bigger percentage who do like it. Its like saying some prefer tea to coffee etc.

And some customers just like a moan.   Its life.

Don't get stressed about it but be prepared for some comments. WFP is not perfect but from a business point of view its quicker, less tiring and more profitable. What are you a business man or a perfectionist?

[AuRavelling79]

There are lots of poor window cleaners charging silly money out there with wfp. (And a few rubbish trad. ones left that use old rags and spit and leave corners out and squeegee lines everywhere).

But a good thorough wfp operator is never going to lose out - he/she may not make £££<insert latest boast figure here> in a day but he will work fast and safe and build up a good compact clientele.

The fact that she has a 3 storey gaff means that in this day and age wfp is going to be the norm. Just do a good job at a sensible price, knock on the neighbours and build up the area.

What was the previous wfp guy charging and for what kind of job?

[Niall McAllister]

Yeah, fair point. We've all come across customers like that.  It's just that I have recently come across a lot of threads here and there which are giving me second thoughts;

Pro's;

1) will get me off the ladder
2) I can work quicker
3) i can get to previously unreachable windows
4) I can offer frames, fascias etc

Cons?

1) Outlay
2) Lot's of faffing around with kit (compared to bucket and ladder)
3) Customers not as happy (don't wanna risk this in current economy)
3) ...finished result not as good as trad...?

*runs for cover*

firstly imodium will sort your runs
secondly re. Cons
1. go for lease to buy. long term it is more expensive, but the full payments can be claimed against tax and you can budget it each month.
2. you don't have the same detailing to do, so the time balances out
3. as has been said, some people will never be happy, you can't change that.
4. if you do it properly the finish is excellent, people think because you leave water on the windows, you leave dirt, that can only be overcome with time as they see the results

hope that helps

[JW1]

I appreciate the advice from all of you.  It's an inevitability that wfp is the way forward, in my opinion.  I must admit I am halfway between a businessman and a perfectionist (I don't think thats a bad thing in this day and age) and it has served me well as a trad cleaner.

The consensus is therefore that wfp does NOT scratch windows, cleans frames but not sills, and overall anyone that goes to wfp does NOT regret it

Have I got that right?

[ian1972]

you can use wfp and still b a perfectionist its all in the operator

[Londoner]

A lot of WFP users are not properly trained and do the windows far too quickly IMO.
They splash and dash and generate lots of complaints. You have to do the whole window several times over, then rinse properly I've watched a few real cowboys doing windows with a WFP really badly.

[Mike #1]

also what custys don't realise is eventually all window cleaner's will be wfp had 1 custys other day said she did'nt like wfp after 18 month but i'm not to bothered as i have just replaced her with a custy which is double the money  life goes on you might lose 1 or 2 more custys because they dont like wfp but you will pick far more up

[mick partington]

A lot of WFP users are not properly trained and do the windows far too quickly IMO.
They splash and dash and generate lots of complaints. You have to do the whole window several times over, then rinse properly I've watched a few real cowboys doing windows with a WFP really badly.

going over windows several times must be really slow, that with access problems ie i use the ladder to get over locked gates, do a quick shimmy round dog poop laden back yards and within a few minutes im out windows shinny clean.
 from my limited nowledge traditional go,s were wfp fears to tread ,but having seid that iv yet to go through winter, icy ground ect im thinking of buying a wfp system for safety reasons but not for quality or speed.