[Tony Gill Carpet Smart]

Not sure Derek still working that one out got it of a GREAT guy !!!!   cheers m8

Simon with respect i have had advice from people who calculate these sort of things for a living thanks for your concern though.

Regards Tony

[Tony Gill Carpet Smart]

Said frames

[Simon Gerrard]

Tony,

You've got only four bolts securing the machine on the frame and four securing the frame to the floor. Plus, the only thing holding the two left hand struts in place are welds with no support struts along the length of the machine. Whoever told you that is safe is telling you porkies. Show these photos to Craig at Hydramaster, he'll tell you straight if he thinks its good enough.
My Titan sits on a 90 gallon water tank which is made of extra thick aluminium and inside the tank on both sides of its length are solid aluminium blocks with high tensile steel bolts all the way through to the floor and the bolts are spaced every six inches or so. Granted you don't have a water tank , but even so the entire left-hand side of the machine is only sitting on an unsupported strut with nothing but an open space beneath it. At least a water tank and the water within it afford the whole structure some added strength. It just doesn't look up to the job.
Again, sorry for the negative, but you can't take your own personal safety too seriously.

Simon

[Glynn]

Tony
Your set up looks good but that frame it sits on really isn't up to the job. The force of that machine in a collision is far far greater than it's original weight. The frame would need much more reinforcement for it to be safe. In a front on collision it would collapse forward like a pack of cards. You would be better doing away with the frame and bolting it through the floor as it should be.
Only my thought's but in your safety's interest.

[Shaun_Ashmore]

I agree that the frame doesn't look the safest but it's more the centre of gravity that worries me and that would put any larger TM in that catagory that sits on a water tank.

Shaun

[Glynn]

Thats not strictly true Shaun, what about fitting a TM on a wagon or on a pickup truck ?, the centre of gravity would then be raised. yet it's not a problem.

[Simon Gerrard]

The problem here is that there is nothing supporting the left side of the machine. In a heavy impact that frame would collapse and with it rip what few bolts there are in it clean out and the machine would end up in the cab.
I dare say the frame is tough enough to hold the machine on it but it has to withold not just the machines weight but 10 times that to have any chance of it stY in place in a collision.
It's probably the most dangerous tm install I've ever seen and l
all for the sake of a bit of extra storage space. Scares the poop out of me!!!
Simon

[derek west]

have any truckmount installations been crash tested? probably not.

i personally think we're all doomed in a head on. i can't see 4 bolts and a bit of welding, (no matter what its fixed too) will hold that sought of weight on impact. same goes for portables that are bungied to the back of a van.

so to everyone, drive carefully guys. better be late than never.

derek

[Simon Gerrard]

Derek,

I think HM in the states have done some tests on this and HM UK now will not fit submounted tanks unless they are no more than 90 gallons and are made of extra thick aluminium and have sold alloy blocks all the way through them with the high tensile steel bolts holding it all in place. Also, they now use thick base plates on the top and underside of the tank which gives the whole structure great rigidity.
What Tony has done is forgone the raw strength of a rigid structure merely to provide some extra space to store a few chemicals containers.

I showed the picture of Tony's frame and installation of the TM on top of it to an engineer on a ship I was working on today. These guys fit heavy plant into engine rooms and commented, 'Crazy.'

Anyway, it's none of my business, I only felt compelled to comment to cover my own conscience.

Simon

[derek west]

simon
so what would you say to someone with a prowler in the back? surely tony's is no different to that, or to a builder with a pallet of bricks in the back.
i personally think any van laden,(fixed or not) is a death trap in a high impact crash scenario, wouldn't you agree.

by the way, i'm not disagree-ing with you, just pointing out my views on laden vans in general.

i'm sure tony will get your views double checked but for now, lets just sit back and admire his handy work. he's turned a heap of junk into a top notch trucky at his first attempt. theres a lot of work gone into that. without the storeage mount, i'd say that man deserves a cigar.
derek

[Simon Gerrard]

Derek,

It's all about risk management. Surely no one takes unnecessary risks and if Ton'y TM was fitted much better than it is he would probably survive impacts that at the moment he may very well not. The sheer physically force of not just the TM but the water tank behind it and the hose reel behind that, all set thirteen inches higher than it should be on a frame that doesn't have a hope in hell of withstanding the forces that would be exerted on those four bolts in even a low'ish speed head on impact.
But you're right, if the speed of the impact is high enough then even the best fitted TM would break free from its mountings, but surely as father's, grand fathers and husband we owe it to our families not to take any more risks than we absolutely have to.

Simon

[derek west]

like i said, i'm not disagreeing with ya.
derek

[Simon Gerrard]

Anyway, hats off to Tony, what he's done with that machine restoration is nothing short of miraculous.

Simon

[Shaun_Ashmore]

Craig said he didn't want to put my 427 on a clean water tank in my van because of the centre of gravity, are you saying that I was mislead by HM? I asked for it to be put on a water tank but they said they wouldn't even if wanted to sign a disclaimer!

I'd have loved to have it mounted on a water tank because it would leave a far bigger space in the back of my van.

Shaun

[derek west]

mines on a water tank, all be it, only 60 gallon, am i a gonna eeeeeek!
derek

[Andrew Briscoe]

I have been re-fitting my van, new ply lining and 1" Quintherm insulation behind and under it, ready for winter.

Too embarrassed to put pics up now after viewing Tony's nice job  

My Steamway comes with a submount tank and machine is held on by 4 bolts thru aluminum tank, was thinking it wouldnt be very good in a crash or hard braking. Previous owner used a plastic upright water tank with a few straps  :

Taken machine off submount and have it in van at mo facing out side door, with waste behind.
Am thinking i will get a new lay flat 250lt of Restormate and making a new frame to mount it all in ( mate is a fabricator) think as Shaun says it will free up more room, as my van is slightly smaller than the one it came out of so upright water tank wont fit behind waste tank.

Andrew

[Shaun_Ashmore]

My old 421 was Derek I was playing Devil's advocate, perhaps Tony may have to have a look at what e has made to fine tune it but it still looks fantastic and I think it's the best renovation I've seen.

Tony if I get a small old TM are you up for another project?

Shaun

[Shaun_Ashmore]

Andrew I would look into have an upright tank like Tony's I think it would save loads of space in the van, personally I like Colin Brights van lay out (well actually Glynns and Dave Lee's) but Colin has a unique way of putting his hose reel at the bulk head so he can pull the hoses out from the side door which is fantastic if your TM is also at the side door.

Shaun

[Andrew Briscoe]

I see what you mean Shaun, however my Hiace isnt a long or medium wheelbase, and it would take up a lot of valuable space. Have a reel to get in too.

Andrew

[Shaun_Ashmore]

The best way is to submount it and then place the TM about 18" - 24" as far as you can from the bulk head and put a hose reel there as you will save loads of space and the time saving over the years but just opening the side door to get hoses out would be enough.

I'd love to get mine like that I may have a word with Dave Roelants he's good at things like that.

Shaun