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WCE

  • Posts: 968
Re: Nationwide window cleaning
« Reply #80 on: September 18, 2009, 01:22:53 am »
ronnie,

ill tell u tomorrow, im on ciu on my phone and its a pain to type.

basic version is i charge a day rate that after everything is paid out im left with enough money that im happy with.

dean

Well from reading that, Ronnie you hit the nail on the head when you said that most national companies just use min wage labour. They do it so they can make it pay.

 However in all honesty Dean you aren't a national company rather a window cleaner whose round happens to encompass the whole country. These national companies will have higher overheads than you and that is how you are able to compete. This is an interesting policy as the potential is there to earn slightly more than the average window cleaner and if you are charging a day rate then there is no downtime provided that priced your day rate accordingly - you earn from the moment you start the traveling to the job so although you only do say 4 hours you are paid for the full day.

However the one problem I do see is that if you plan to scale it up then suddenly the costs are going to go up and that will leave you with two choices:
(1) continue with what could (after costs) be considered a low day rate and therefore less profit or
(2) increase your day rate to cover the increased costs.
The problem you are left with is that you will have to accept low profit margins (less than average local domestic cleaner - like for like)  or run the risks of someone coming along and undercutting.
 
You could argue that nationwide window cleaning has had it's day - A few people saw the potential and then exploited it for all they could. They knew what could be achieved and did there best gain a monopoly - the trouble was that there was competition who were onto the same thing at the same time. Therefore they tried to price each other out of the market and the age of cut price national contracts were born. The one thing they did manage was to (as a general rule) convince the big national chains that these companies could lower the overheads and therefore contribute to maximising profit.

Of course, this drive to reduce the costs resulted in lower standards being applied but over time these lower standards became accepted (think about this who is going to complain, a manager of a store maybe? WOW!!! the real people who run these chains are the accountants and the directors ie people whose involvement on a national scale will be looking at the spreadsheet costings. True they might see a store local to them that is substandard and pull the company cleaning it up but IMO it is very unlikely that they would realise that they had the same problem on a national scale).

I read your earlier post and googled nationwide window cleaning. I would say that 90% of the companies sub contract at least a part of their work to local opertators in order to obtain nationwide coverage.
This to me is the problem with the day rate system. I can see you making a decent living but as a full blown national business the system is flawed and if you try to scale up you own operations you will be priced out of the market as outlined above.

Of course it all depends on how far you want to take things but if that is the direction you wish to take then you are going to have to think about this and come up with an alternative.

   
 
WCE- For Windows that shine everytime!

EZclean

  • Posts: 857
Re: Nationwide window cleaning
« Reply #81 on: September 18, 2009, 01:28:25 am »
nice post WCE
EZclean - Cleaner Than Water

bluez

  • Posts: 519
Re: Nationwide window cleaning
« Reply #82 on: September 18, 2009, 09:40:58 am »
ronnie,

ill tell u tomorrow, im on ciu on my phone and its a pain to type.

basic version is i charge a day rate that after everything is paid out im left with enough money that im happy with.

dean

Well from reading that, Ronnie you hit the nail on the head when you said that most national companies just use min wage labour. They do it so they can make it pay.

 However in all honesty Dean you aren't a national company rather a window cleaner whose round happens to encompass the whole country. These national companies will have higher overheads than you and that is how you are able to compete. This is an interesting policy as the potential is there to earn slightly more than the average window cleaner and if you are charging a day rate then there is no downtime provided that priced your day rate accordingly - you earn from the moment you start the traveling to the job so although you only do say 4 hours you are paid for the full day.

However the one problem I do see is that if you plan to scale it up then suddenly the costs are going to go up and that will leave you with two choices:
(1) continue with what could (after costs) be considered a low day rate and therefore less profit or
(2) increase your day rate to cover the increased costs.
The problem you are left with is that you will have to accept low profit margins (less than average local domestic cleaner - like for like)  or run the risks of someone coming along and undercutting.
 
You could argue that nationwide window cleaning has had it's day - A few people saw the potential and then exploited it for all they could. They knew what could be achieved and did there best gain a monopoly - the trouble was that there was competition who were onto the same thing at the same time. Therefore they tried to price each other out of the market and the age of cut price national contracts were born. The one thing they did manage was to (as a general rule) convince the big national chains that these companies could lower the overheads and therefore contribute to maximising profit.

Of course, this drive to reduce the costs resulted in lower standards being applied but over time these lower standards became accepted (think about this who is going to complain, a manager of a store maybe? WOW!!! the real people who run these chains are the accountants and the directors ie people whose involvement on a national scale will be looking at the spreadsheet costings. True they might see a store local to them that is substandard and pull the company cleaning it up but IMO it is very unlikely that they would realise that they had the same problem on a national scale).

I read your earlier post and googled nationwide window cleaning. I would say that 90% of the companies sub contract at least a part of their work to local opertators in order to obtain nationwide coverage.
This to me is the problem with the day rate system. I can see you making a decent living but as a full blown national business the system is flawed and if you try to scale up you own operations you will be priced out of the market as outlined above.

Of course it all depends on how far you want to take things but if that is the direction you wish to take then you are going to have to think about this and come up with an alternative.

   
 


I would prefer 1% of a lot than 100% of a little,  Can you explain the bit about his cost having to increase if he scales up WCE, I dont think as a % of turnover that his overheads will necessarily go up, managed poorly it could certainly but it doestn't have to.

I would think that subbing all work from one or two big clients would be a potential disaster but so long as you build your own client base as well it can be a decent business plan particularly if the get out strategy involves selling to one of the National companies.

What is the difference between a national window cleaning company and a window cleaner who cleans nationwide?


hi

Dean Taberner

  • Posts: 4164
Re: Nationwide window cleaning
« Reply #83 on: September 18, 2009, 09:26:20 pm »
Ronnie

Will deliver,

Theres no special formula it is nowt more than getting the price right,

Just preping my little man for the vale beating bury tomorrow,

and taking my little girl to bed,

Dean
Operations manager at J.V Price Ltd

http://www.thepricegroup.co.uk

Dean Taberner

  • Posts: 4164
Re: Nationwide window cleaning
« Reply #84 on: September 18, 2009, 09:40:26 pm »
ronnie,

ill tell u tomorrow, im on ciu on my phone and its a pain to type.

basic version is i charge a day rate that after everything is paid out im left with enough money that im happy with.

dean

Well from reading that, Ronnie you hit the nail on the head when you said that most national companies just use min wage labour. They do it so they can make it pay.

 However in all honesty Dean you aren't a national company rather a window cleaner whose round happens to encompass the whole country. These national companies will have higher overheads than you and that is how you are able to compete. This is an interesting policy as the potential is there to earn slightly more than the average window cleaner and if you are charging a day rate then there is no downtime provided that priced your day rate accordingly - you earn from the moment you start the traveling to the job so although you only do say 4 hours you are paid for the full day.

However the one problem I do see is that if you plan to scale it up then suddenly the costs are going to go up and that will leave you with two choices:
(1) continue with what could (after costs) be considered a low day rate and therefore less profit or
(2) increase your day rate to cover the increased costs.
The problem you are left with is that you will have to accept low profit margins (less than average local domestic cleaner - like for like)  or run the risks of someone coming along and undercutting.
 
You could argue that nationwide window cleaning has had it's day - A few people saw the potential and then exploited it for all they could. They knew what could be achieved and did there best gain a monopoly - the trouble was that there was competition who were onto the same thing at the same time. Therefore they tried to price each other out of the market and the age of cut price national contracts were born. The one thing they did manage was to (as a general rule) convince the big national chains that these companies could lower the overheads and therefore contribute to maximising profit.

Of course, this drive to reduce the costs resulted in lower standards being applied but over time these lower standards became accepted (think about this who is going to complain, a manager of a store maybe? WOW!!! the real people who run these chains are the accountants and the directors ie people whose involvement on a national scale will be looking at the spreadsheet costings. True they might see a store local to them that is substandard and pull the company cleaning it up but IMO it is very unlikely that they would realise that they had the same problem on a national scale).

I read your earlier post and googled nationwide window cleaning. I would say that 90% of the companies sub contract at least a part of their work to local opertators in order to obtain nationwide coverage.
This to me is the problem with the day rate system. I can see you making a decent living but as a full blown national business the system is flawed and if you try to scale up you own operations you will be priced out of the market as outlined above.

Of course it all depends on how far you want to take things but if that is the direction you wish to take then you are going to have to think about this and come up with an alternative.

   
 


WCE

I arent a national company and unless I have a load of luck I never will be,

Please read my first post on this ever so crazy thread,

Dean
Operations manager at J.V Price Ltd

http://www.thepricegroup.co.uk

Dean Taberner

  • Posts: 4164
Re: Nationwide window cleaning
« Reply #85 on: December 17, 2009, 06:43:22 pm »
Nationwide window cleaning is back on track,

Been to birmingham mon and tues,

Leeds, wakefield, warrington, cheshire oaks, chester and wrexham wednesday,

Stoke on Trent today,

Anglesey tomorrow,

London with J V Prices lads mon, tues and wed next week,

And in Ipswich from mid jan for a week on a university builders clean.

All I need to do now is find a way to make it pay ;D ;D ;D (only joking ;) )

Has anybody else caught the travelling bug since this thread last surfaced?

Dean
Operations manager at J.V Price Ltd

http://www.thepricegroup.co.uk

Re: Nationwide window cleaning
« Reply #86 on: December 17, 2009, 06:54:22 pm »
No Dean I havent.

I go out my house, travel for 1.5 minutes to work, travel 1.5 minutes back 4-5 hours later with a couple done  ;)

Dean Taberner

  • Posts: 4164
Re: Nationwide window cleaning
« Reply #87 on: December 17, 2009, 06:59:58 pm »
Good on you Matt,

It isnt that simple in Stoke unfortunatley,

Do you enjoy it or is it just a job to you mate?

Dean
Operations manager at J.V Price Ltd

http://www.thepricegroup.co.uk

Re: Nationwide window cleaning
« Reply #88 on: December 17, 2009, 07:02:56 pm »
I love my job Dean.

Nothing better.

Dean Taberner

  • Posts: 4164
Re: Nationwide window cleaning
« Reply #89 on: December 17, 2009, 07:05:08 pm »
Youve provoked me into another thread Matt ;) ;)
Operations manager at J.V Price Ltd

http://www.thepricegroup.co.uk

Re: Nationwide window cleaning
« Reply #90 on: December 17, 2009, 07:07:12 pm »
 ;D ;D

I shall wait and watch.