[Shaun_Ashmore]

Perhaps they don't want to? newbies coming in looking to get TRAINED and pay good money for it and the TRAINERS get paid also.

Shaun

[robert meldrum]

I think you might find someones already a few steps ahead of you. I've been harping on about training to a recognised standard ( from novice to advanced ) for some time as I believe the introduction of NVQ type training is inevitable. It's gradually becoming a "requirement" in all service industries and trades.

What anyone considering an association with the obvious objectives should consider is the fact that there are long established organisations already within the cleaning industry delivering NVQ s and higher and have been doing so for many years.

It would be a simple matter to include carpet and upholstery cleaning. Hard surface cleaning / maintenance is already covered.

When NVQs become mandatory training organisations will require to become acredited training providers at some cost and existing assessors will require to take further training to qualify them in newly introduced sectors.


The worst bit is the cost of training will have to be borne by those undertaking the training and it will be monitored by a " commission " which will charge large fees from the people who employ the operators.

[Ryan Smyth]

100 percent behind you derek, how refreshing it is to have someone speak their mind and not be afraid of the naysayers and doubters
You like me and many others have invested a lot of money and time into our respective businesses and because we are "newbies" in lets be honest, something which comes absolutely no where near a "trade" there are so called established wasters who are so quick to pounce on different ideas.
Derek 100% class!!!

Ryan (newbie)

[robert meldrum]

As it's not clear what Derek's intention / thoughts really are how can you be 100% behind him. He said he's taking the p and if he's not .................he's got a lot to consider.

We live in a world of " instant experts " where lives and businesses are screwed up by thoughtless wrongthinking " new kids on the block " who IMAGINE they have all the answers.

What happens frequently is a new organisation sets up with lots of banner waving and enthusiasm, the disillusioned change horses and after a short time their money has gone and aggro replaces enthusiasm.

I know exactly what Derek has in mind and the only people who will benefit will be the advertisers.

Enthusiasm is great but there's no shortage of it already ............


What 's against this concept from the start is..........DIFFERENCES OF OPINION if you can overcome that you MIGHT have SOME success, but it will be very limited in this industry where everyone wants to be THEIR OWN MAN

[daysdeepclean]

If Derek is just taking the rise, so what? He has at least raised a valid issue.

In it's plainest simplest way, the idiot with a RD undercutting the "Serious" carpet cleaner and giving each and every one of us a "Bad name" needs to be warned about. Awareness to our invaluable customers is needed and unfortunately (or not) the advertiser is going to rake the money in.... 

[derek west]

i've never said i was taking the "p".

ive put these ideas across before in previous posts, what i did say was i was bored so decided to start a trhread on it. yes i wasn't serious but after talking to someone i respect very much in the industry, i decided to look into it further.

robert your point about nvq and training is a valid one and things like this have to be discussed and looked into.
but its pointless until i can get you guys on board, i'm not asking anyone to dust the cobwebs off there wallets and start writing a cheque, all i'm asking at the moment, is, if an organisation could give recognition to our industry, and when i say recognition, i mean recognised by 30% 40% of the general public then would you be interested, i know i would.
i'll be the first to admit i can't do all this on my own, but if i can get the ball rolling then i'll have done my bit. and if i can help it grow then even better, this is not a new idea by any means, i'm not claiming i thought it up, all i'm trying to do is rally the troops so to speak.
its not a new concept and its been tried before and failed, fine, but does that mean that it will fail again. theres a massive database of cleaners out there and if its attacked and done in the right order it can and would work. you could even get recognition from members databases, for instance
hi mrs jones, we cleaned your carpets last year, hope your happy with the results, we have now been accepted by the T.A.C.C.A. and then go on to explain all about, its an excuse to get in touch with your clients and also bragg about how youve been accepted, couple that with national press advertising and good old dale winton on the tele and it wouldn't take long to get the word out. ive got so many ideas to push this forward, but i need advice from guys like you bob, and all the other top guys on here,

yes critisysm is welcome but i'd prefer constructive critisysm.
derek

[Steve Barnett (Carpet Care Plus)]

Ok

You can't spell criticism 



Steve

[Mike Halliday]

everyone will encourage you and tell you what a great idea it is but when it comes time to put their hands in their pockets their support will all disappear.  no one will pay a grand.

carpet cleaners love to encourage other people to waste thier time & spend thier money.

if this idea needs other carpet cleaners to spend money it will never happen.

don't consider this as criticism its fact

[daysdeepclean]

Mike, I take it you're not a member of the NCCA then?

[Shaun_Ashmore]

Well you'd need a training schedule for all members and then there would be the directors and office staff a dedicated phone line, training facilities and the 'mission statement'

Shaun

[Neil Williams]

I'm going to put my pennies worth in on this subject.
The biggest organisation for window cleaners is called FWC (Federation of Window Cleaners).
Some years ago they lost their way on all fronts, and on the back of that numerous window cleaners got together (including myself) to create the very thing that window cleaners wanted APWC (Association of Professional Window Cleaners).
Oh there was loads and loads of support for this up until the moment the thing went live. We had 2 major players in the industry involved too but come the day we said membership was based on certain criteria and the cost was around the £100 per year region, getting people to join up was literally the p-ss in the wind scenario.
Amazingly the membership cost included an insurance policy (specially arranged) that would cover death and injury and loss of earnings, this would have cost easily 3 times the cost of membership if bought by the individual outside the APWC.
I won't go into all the details of benefits but this year the APWC was wound up due to lack of support.
On the positive side at least the FWC got the required kick up the backside and started to sort itself out, albeit membership of that organisation is drying up week by week.
Sadly whilst the trade wether it be window cleaning or carpet cleaning is unregulated then other than a handful of dedicated people, membership is going to be very limited and at £1,000 is for sure a non starter.

[robert meldrum]

Derek

You're a " rolling stone " and I wonder what your next idea will be. You've had I think, a reasonable 1st year but with a pretty big investment which will take some time to fully re coup.

At the moment you appear to be searching, searching, for

Why don't you concentrate on building on your 1st year experiences or you might find your existing business slipping away as you chase shadows.

Just my observations

[derek west]

robert
i can assure you your observations are wrong.i hit my targets for year one and  i'm on  to hit my target for year 2 within in 9 months, if that is the case i will have to rewrite my forecast for year 3 and 4. yes i know, targets aren't guaranteed but then, nothings guaranteed in life.

neil
thank you for your input, without sounding horrible, i'd love to maybe chat more on possibly where it went wrong. i applaud your attempt.
allthough membership will remain at £1000, (which lets face it, is not even a weeks turnover for most professional carpet cleaners, wasn't fastrack something stupid like £7k when it first came out) i think discounts for early members will be introduced, then once we are up and running and you see the setup and get asked "are you approved by TACCA"?, a thousand pound with all the benefits TACCA will give you, it won't sound so expensive. i just think too cheap and any numptie can join, but faced with a membership dearer than there equipment and estate car will see the riff raff off.
mike
i seriously would pay a grand, as long as i had the guarantees that the organisation were committed to recognition from josaphine bloggs. don't forget there will be a few free perks included like liability and treatment risk insurance included and if we can negotiate, some discounts with major distributors. plus anything else that will make our members remain loyal. TACCA ID cards etc... to be discussed.
shaun
are you in or is it just left to us so called newbies, remember when you were a newbie and you had all these same ideas but nothing came of it cos all the vets said that it wouldn't work
derek

[Shaun_Ashmore]

When you sat Vets do you mean James Herriot? There have been other associations like Proclean (Nick Vousden White and Derek Bolton were involved) also there was a North East association which JK and I think Paul King were in but it eventually folded or something it's hard to keep everyone happy.

It's not a new idea creating another association it's just hard to keep it going and for a grand I'd want a lot back for my money.

Shaun

[derek west]

its all about customer awareness, that is the key. and thats what will make it worth the membership. everyone moans about the NCCA not known by there customers, yes its nice to say you belong to an organisation but lets face it. you could tell your custy you belong to the JUYTRDSDVGHJKKNBFRTYH and they would not know any different.

customer awareness, thats it. not carpet cleaner awareness. simples.

TACCA is so easy to remember, just need to plant it and promote it. ive got the ideas, ive got backing, i just need the kernow how. and for you vets to remember how the vets in your youth told you it would never work, its abit like the old saying, "i'll never be like my parents"
the vets of today got knocked back in there youth by the vets of yesterday, and now your doing the same to us newbies. its time to think positive, its not gonna cost you ewt. well not yet anyhoo.


derek

[Neil Williams]

i'd love to maybe chat more on possibly where it went wrong. i applaud your attempt.

Send me an e-mail to neilj96@ntlworld.com with your phone numbers and when I get a chance I'll explain in more detail what people wanted, why, and why it went wrong.
I'm seeing too many simularities here between:
NCCA > TACCA
FWC > APWC

At the end of the day all you risk doing is giving the NCCA a slight kick up the backside to maybe re-evaluate where they've gone wrong.
I'll tell you one trick their missing straight away and that is to contact all those who comment on forums about joining. Has it ever been so easy to find potential members than in this day and age with the internet and names available?

[Shaun_Ashmore]

They don't want members as they are easy to get hold of, no they want to train the newbies it's a way of getting new money.

Shaun

[robert meldrum]

I can't believe what I'm reading Who in their right mind would call an organisation especially a cleaning organisation something that's bound to be called TACKY.

As Shaun correctly hit on..................the money is in training but only for approved organisations.

[derek west]

bit beneath you that comment robert, but might as well join in, ya can't beat a bit of childish banter.

who in there right mind would call them selves something that when said, says knicker. ncca

who in there right mind would name a transport company, STD. thats actually true.

actually bob, (negative into a positive time)

"theres nothing tacky about tacca".

i like it, cheers bob, knew you'd come in handy for something
derek

[Mike Osbourne]

Derek

Why don't you set up a forum for starters. It's free (ish) and you get a taste of what you will have to put up with. You will build a list, be able to advertise your offering free and with no decenters (just ban them).

You can also get the ego trip and get your cronies as moderators to back you up. This will be good practice for setting up an organisation.