[derek west]

starting to sound like a grease song
derek

[Shaun_Ashmore]

Roger I like the systematic approach and look forward to knowing what you did to the brown pigmented chair, did you re dye it in the process above?

I'm guessing that you cleaned it then applied pre Fat L then Fat L then post Fat L then colour and then apply finish?

Shaun

[Roger Koh]

Roger on Picture 4 is that now recoloured because the cracks have gone but the clour is replaced?

Also will doing the re hydration and fat laquor remove all creases?

Shaun

------


These pictures show how creases are removed:

#1) Leather scotched, too near to a fireplace!


#2) Hydrated by a pH 3.3 Hydrator


#3) Stretch by leatherTool6 after both hydrating and fatliquoring


#4) Do you see the creases?


Roger Koh
Leather Doctor®

[derek west]

so you wet it and stretch it, basically.
derek

[Roger Koh]

so you wet it and stretch it, basically.
derek

------------------



Basically, you need to think of fatliquoring as a “system”.

You are the leather expert, is the “pre-fatliquoring” with a pH 3.3 hydrator necessary - you decide!

When you fatliquor prior to restoring the 2nd leather strata finishes, you decide how to ensure that this fatliquor5.0 does not fool around on top of it, you decide whether the post-fatliquoring with a pH 3.0 helps!

When it says and does not work, trash it together with the one that cons you too!

Roger Koh
Leather Doctor®

[Shaun_Ashmore]

I'm just wondering how far the system will go meaning that can I offer the service as a crease removal service?

Shauh

[Roger Koh]

Yes!

Just make sure that whatever you offer, you can deliver it too!


Roger Koh
Leather Doctor®

[Shaun_Ashmore]

I agree with not over selling but based on your products I can remove all wrinkles and creases?

Shaun

[derek west]

surely a simple test, 2 pieces of dried out leather, soak one in water and the other in fat liquer and see which becomes most supple and stays most supple over time.
i shall try it, unless someone can tell me if my plan has flaws?

any know where i can get fat liquer from, and if bens reading this, whats your view on fat liquer?
derek

[Shaun_Ashmore]

Derek don't you drink fat liquor is it from Netto?

Shaun

[Roger Koh]

Remember it is impossible to re fatliquor leather once it has been through the retanning process.

------------

Kindly explain what is “the retanning process”, and why the impossibility to re-fatliquor thereafter.


Roger Koh
Leather Doctor®

[LTT Leathercare]

Roger I am surprised that you do not understand the retanning process.

Once a hide has been through the 'tanning' process it becomes leather.  Processes beyond this including the addition of fatliquors is known as the 'retanning' process.

This process is variable depending on what the leather is to be used for and therefore establishing the exact formulation for the fatliquor used for one particular leather is not possible.

The American Leather Chemists Association have the following to say regarding fatliquors:

" Fatliquor is not volatile nor migratory, so leather is not going to lose it. 
However, along with the fatliquor, the other critical factor is moisture.  Any leather is going to lose its moisture in a not car.  Although leather seems dry, it is not.  Of course too much moisture quickly leads to mold and mildew problems, so soaking it down is not reasonable.  Ideally, exposure to humid atmosphere will help balance the effect of over drying on hot days.  Leather is very dynamic with respect to moisture content, meaning moisture comes and goes easily under normal circumstances...."

Therefore fatliquor does not evaporate or go away and there is no need to replace it.

Hope this helps

[Roger Koh]

Therefore fatliquor does not evaporate or go away and there is no need to replace it.

---

Well you are well connected, with all the tanners and leather chemist to consult from, should share more with us, and I appreciate.

Could you kindly explain to us what is “Spue” or “Spew”?

Roger Koh
Leather Doctor®

[LTT Leathercare]

Roger
I see where you are coming from but I think you are a little confused.

Spew
When the fat liquor introduced during the re-tanning process is destabilised and rises to the surface of the leather creating a white haze or film on the surface. 
This will look dry but have a greasy/fatty feel to it. If it is cleaned off it will almost certainly return.
Requires a stabilising product to re balance the fats.

Spewing is generally only seen in new leathers and is caused by the destabilisation of the fat liquors by changes in humidity etc. during transportation.  This problem requires the resatabilisation of the fats using a special product (a stabiliser not a fatliquor) and once done with the correct product will not reoccur.

Replacing the fatliquor is not necessary at this stage (and would be impossible). The 'spewing' condition does not occur due to age or wear it is due to slight incorrect chemical balance during the retanning process  and then this is exacerbated by the conditions as described above.

[Roger Koh]

Yes!

I am confused!

Please clarify

Quote
“Therefore fatliquor does not evaporate or go away and there is no need to replace it.”


If fatliquor does nor evaporate or go away, why the need for products such as Spew Remover, etc. etc.



Roger Koh
Leather Doctor®

[K.O. Glanville]

I am also confused here, but that's not hard to do. 

What I find confusing is this:

"Fatliquor is not volatile nor migratory, so leather is not going to lose it."

If this is truly the case, why does leather appear to go dry and hard, then gets brittle and finally crack.?

I fail to understand why the leather goes hard if these fatliqours are still inside the leather, doing their job and keeping the leather soft and supple.

One other thing that I fail to understand is the use of leather conditioners and protection creams.

If these products are not getting through to the leather because the pigment is stopping them, and we are telling the custards that they are, are we not lying and ripping the custards off.?

To me, this has been a very fascinating thread and is full of a lot of good information.

How will a simple person such as I, determine which information is good and which is not.?

I am very much looking forward to more dialogue on this subject.

Thanks,

Shorty.

[derek west]

Yes!

I am confused!

Please clarify

Quote
“Therefore fatliquor does not evaporate or go away and there is no need to replace it.”


If fatliquor does nor evaporate or go away, why the need for products such as Spew Remover, etc. etc.



Roger Koh
Leather Doctor®

surely spew remover is needed after the retanning process on new leather, when there is detableisation. thats how i read it anyhoo.
derek

[robert meldrum]

Good post Shorty.

Would be great if holes being dug were abandoned and the argument became a discussion. Don't get me wrong I know very well that this kind of exchange is a great learning tool

[Tony Gill Carpet Smart]

Yes very well put Shorty some people come on and share ask questions though and others just come on and seem to contradict whatever is being said when it comes to leather I can't understand why : : : : : : : : :

Cheers Tony

[Roger Koh]

The American Leather Chemists Association have the following to say regarding fatliquors:

Fatliquor is not volatile nor migratory, so leather is not going to lose it. 
Therefore fatliquor does not evaporate or go away and there is no need to replace it.

----------------------


So, what is this white haze or film you see on this old brown leather surface?

Please clarify?



Roger Koh
Leather Doctor®