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drive surgeon

  • Posts: 2812
machine cut out twice today
« on: July 14, 2009, 07:57:27 pm »
my 13 hp tech clean machine cut out twice today, i thought it was the crank shaft gone but jan from tech clean said it could be cos i have the unloader valve on full all the time twisted to the end.  it has never cut out before ever.  jan said the crank shaft goes wen you swithch on and off whilst in high revs instead of slowing the revs down first.  anyone else had problems??

its one thing after another lately. :'(
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drivewasher

  • Posts: 380
Re: machine cut out twice today
« Reply #1 on: July 14, 2009, 10:01:52 pm »
DS thats rubbish! If the key or the slot in the crankshat, if thats what you mean as we have spoken about this before, will make the engine run but not the pump.
The underloader should have been set when machine was assembled by the two locking nuts under the numpty. ( you can't see them) so screwng the underloader numpty down all the way should give you the full bar rating of your machine's design. This should give you no bypass water at all or just a trickle is ok

The cutting out of the engine could be numerouse things. Clean and reset or change the spark plug. Check the wires aren't touching the case or frayed just by the n off switch where all 3 cables meet in a rubber conector.
There is a fuel filter in the tank that needs cleaning on every service (most folk don't know what a service is lol..)
You have to take tank off and remove the outlet union the filters in there just blow it out "backwards"
Take the carburetor bowl off and clean that out.
Check valve clerances with a cold engine.

OR put it in van bvring it down and don't forger tea bags and bacon butties
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I'm always in the poo, it's just the depth that varies

BDCS

  • Posts: 4777
Re: machine cut out twice today
« Reply #2 on: July 15, 2009, 07:43:04 am »
Was the machine level and the oil at the right height or it could have been the oil switch, I'd put a little more oil in it before you get too excited. I have never adjusted the unloader from max and always just switched it off at full revs - 6 years and no problems
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drive surgeon

  • Posts: 2812
Re: machine cut out twice today
« Reply #3 on: July 15, 2009, 05:40:30 pm »
i did what jan said and slackened the unloader and it did not cut out today, but when the machine is in by pass mode it makes a hunting noise every so often instead of a straight engine noise, could this be an underlying problem too?
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drivewasher

  • Posts: 380
Re: machine cut out twice today
« Reply #4 on: July 15, 2009, 08:43:08 pm »
Ds if your bypassing anything other than a light trickle of water then your'e NOT running at full pressure, so what's the point in having a 250 bar machine and having to run it at say 200 bar or less to make it work. As I said before I think thats total tripe
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I'm always in the poo, it's just the depth that varies

Nathanael Jones

  • Posts: 5596
Re: machine cut out twice today
« Reply #5 on: July 15, 2009, 09:37:13 pm »
I'd start by replacing the air filter & spark plug, cleaning the fuel filter and stripping down the carb.
Fresh oil in the engine & the pump, and see how she goes.

Reducing pressure isn't an option I'd consider personally.
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stalwart

  • Posts: 344
Re: machine cut out twice today
« Reply #6 on: July 15, 2009, 09:51:32 pm »
Never a prob with a derv engine ;)
clean oil ;)
clean fuel ;)
clean air ;)
regular service ;)
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Been there,seen it,done it,just cant remember when

Nathanael Jones

  • Posts: 5596
Re: machine cut out twice today
« Reply #7 on: July 15, 2009, 10:13:49 pm »
What engine do your run Stalwart? I'm looking at diesel for my next machine,...
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drive surgeon

  • Posts: 2812
Re: machine cut out twice today
« Reply #8 on: July 15, 2009, 10:26:51 pm »
no steve the machine goes into by pass mode when the trigger is not pressed,  it sends water around the machine to cool it then send it back to the tank of water.  it has a full flow of water back to the tank when gun not pressed.
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stalwart

  • Posts: 344
Re: machine cut out twice today
« Reply #9 on: July 15, 2009, 10:36:27 pm »
Quote from: Nathanael Jones on July 15, 2009, 10:13:49 pm
What engine do your run Stalwart? I'm looking at diesel for my next machine,...

My unit is a Karcher HDS 1000 DE with a Yanmar engine
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Been there,seen it,done it,just cant remember when

drivewasher

  • Posts: 380
Re: machine cut out twice today
« Reply #10 on: July 16, 2009, 02:12:19 pm »
Quote from: drive surgeon on July 15, 2009, 10:26:51 pm
no steve the machine goes into by pass mode when the trigger is not pressed,  it sends water around the machine to cool it then send it back to the tank of water.  it has a full flow of water back to the tank when gun not pressed.

If you turn the pressure down by unscrewing the underloader numpty then that diverts water during use (trigger pulled if you like) back to the tank by bypass hose. So unscrewing the underloader is reducing the pressure.
If the machine runs and is set up properly then there should be no or little by pass water when used on full design pressure. The underloader numpty has no effect on an engine missfire

As for the service I've already stated that.
It seems to me that to many cooks spoil the pressure washer
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I'm always in the poo, it's just the depth that varies

drive surgeon

  • Posts: 2812
Re: machine cut out twice today
« Reply #11 on: July 16, 2009, 05:28:47 pm »
i got told that wen the machine is in by pass mode (trigger not pressed)  water always flows back to your tank and back through the machine to keep it cool.  is this not right?  i have a full flow of water in by pass mode?

i need someone to help clear this up? ???
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stalwart

  • Posts: 344
Re: machine cut out twice today
« Reply #12 on: July 16, 2009, 06:00:05 pm »
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Been there,seen it,done it,just cant remember when

drive surgeon

  • Posts: 2812
Re: machine cut out twice today
« Reply #13 on: July 16, 2009, 06:25:47 pm »
so should i have my unloader set so no water by passes and back into tank?  i thought that wouyld build up pressure in the pump?  like i said i had the unloader valve on maximum +, what should i have it on?
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stalwart

  • Posts: 344
Re: machine cut out twice today
« Reply #14 on: July 16, 2009, 06:52:07 pm »
It seems to me that to many cooks spoil the pressure washer

I couldn't agree more ;D
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Been there,seen it,done it,just cant remember when

John Kelly

  • Posts: 4461
Re: machine cut out twice today
« Reply #15 on: July 16, 2009, 08:29:04 pm »
Your bypass is doing what its designed to do. Without the water bypassing, when you stop washing the water in the pump would become more and more compressed and consequently heated which would result in damaged check valves and seals.
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drivewasher

  • Posts: 380
Re: machine cut out twice today
« Reply #16 on: July 16, 2009, 10:54:48 pm »
Hi John,
Your thinking of an internal bypass, I would't reccomend one on any machine but hey...
The water doesn't actually get more and more compressed thats why it bypasses to stop that, if it didn't it would do damage like this. In this example the valve capmthreads gave way, and noone was injured, it can actually fire the caps off and bury them in the ceiling or someones head!



The reason it gets hot is because the pump must always pump water and when underloader goes into bypass the bypass water goes round from outlet back to the inlet, therefore no fresh colder water is introduced into this short circuit after a few mins of running like this the small quantity of water keeps picking up the heat the pump is generating. A bit like running car engine with the radiator removed from the circuit
In an extenal or back to tank bypass the pump will have to heat the whole tank up to do any damage, that would take forever.
Of course the bypass could just vent onto the floor but that would waste water.
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I'm always in the poo, it's just the depth that varies

drive surgeon

  • Posts: 2812
Re: machine cut out twice today
« Reply #17 on: July 17, 2009, 08:41:11 am »
my by pass goes back to the 400 litre tank, when trigger not pressed a full flow goes back to tank?  thats with the unloader on full.  if i slacken the unloader wont i lose pressure on the lance?
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drivewasher

  • Posts: 380
Re: machine cut out twice today New
« Reply #18 on: July 17, 2009, 10:02:22 am »
Quote from: drive surgeon on July 17, 2009, 08:41:11 am
my by pass goes back to the 400 litre tank, when trigger not pressed a full flow goes back to tank?  thats with the unloader on full.  if i slacken the unloader wont i lose pressure on the lance?

YES thats right, but I'm tring to point out that you were told the engine keeps stopping because youv'e got the underloader screwed right down. Thats rubbish because if it's set up right from new then the underloader should be right down for it's intended max pressure.
You can't succsesfully fault find a machine when your trying/looking at so many variables. You need to get te machine set up right, then go from there, it's much easier to shoot a fixed target!

Too many cooks spoil the pressure washer, as I said before.

That pic is of damage done to an interpump 15ltr/min 250bar caused by someone messing with the underloader. A new pump was fitted about £400 ish irc. Apart from the cost it could have quite easily been a nasty accident. Pumps at these pressures are dangerouse. I can't understand why, in these times of H&S this and that, why saftey valves are not a legal requirement
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I'm always in the poo, it's just the depth that varies
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