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myvanwi

V.A.T. on domestic work
« on: July 02, 2009, 02:38:12 pm »
Has anyone any ideas on how we can charge v.a.t. (I know we have to pass the charge on) on a domestic rate which everyone already thinks is too expensive? We used to charge £!2 per hour but business dried up. We now have to charge £9.99. If we have to put 15% on top of that we are going to be charging too much again for the market in our area. What does everyone else charge when they have to pay v.a.t.
Regards
Lewis

Joe H

Re: V.A.T. on domestic work
« Reply #1 on: July 02, 2009, 03:08:22 pm »
Very helpful.  http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/vat/index.htm

currently £68000 pa turnover then you must register for vat

pdl

  • Posts: 154
Re: V.A.T. on domestic work
« Reply #2 on: July 02, 2009, 03:28:16 pm »
Are you VAT registered?
Never ASSUME, to ASSUME makes an ASS out of U and ME              Cannock Staffordshire

Re: V.A.T. on domestic work
« Reply #3 on: July 02, 2009, 04:37:00 pm »
1. If you are VAT registered you have to charge @ 15% for now untill the government change it back to 17.5%

Now if your are charging £9.99 the total payable by your customer is £11.49 per hour.

If they do not want to pay this then I dont think its worth having them as a client.

Or if you must then you have to swallow the vat yourself and charge the client £8.69 + vat giving you a total of £9.99

Dave

vacman

  • Posts: 396
Re: V.A.T. on domestic work
« Reply #4 on: July 02, 2009, 08:44:13 pm »
My own experience is that no domestic client likes pay VAT because in most cases they already think they are paying enough and/or are not getting a very good service.

My own business never got to the VAT stage and i know i had a lot of clients who left other companies because they added VAT on. I am not really up on VAT, so i have to ask, do you actually have to tell people you are charging VAT? Can it not just be a price increase, with no mention?

Rob_Mac

Re: V.A.T. on domestic work
« Reply #5 on: July 02, 2009, 08:46:10 pm »
Vacman

I just make it an inclusive price - but the VAT is definately paid out of their pocket and not mine!!!

Rob ;D

vacman

  • Posts: 396
Re: V.A.T. on domestic work
« Reply #6 on: July 02, 2009, 08:48:46 pm »
Well thats exactly what i mean, do you have to document it on a recipet though?

suffolkclean

  • Posts: 908
Re: V.A.T. on domestic work
« Reply #7 on: July 02, 2009, 08:49:47 pm »
I would too - give a total hourly rate then no hidden extras as far as they're concerned.

John Kelly

  • Posts: 4461
Re: V.A.T. on domestic work
« Reply #8 on: July 02, 2009, 10:19:58 pm »
Lowering prices is a mistake in a recession and leads to a downward spiral. You'd be better off enhancing your service or targetting a different clientel.

Re: V.A.T. on domestic work
« Reply #9 on: July 03, 2009, 07:06:52 am »
Well thats exactly what i mean, do you have to document it on a recipet though?

Vacman,

Every reciept/ Invoice legally has to have a VAT Registration Number. You must declare that you are VAT registered on all of your paperwork relating to INVOICES/RECEIPTS.

The general rule is also to be displayed as for example by HMRC

Cost    £100.00
VAT      £15.00
TOTAL  £115.00

reg no somewhere on paperwork.
Plus your LTD Company No if you are Ltd

Vat registration No 1*****34

The only exception to this RULE is if you or anyone is a retailer, like shops ion the high street. However they have to issue you a VAT receipt if you ask for one.

As a cleaning service it would not qualify as a retailer so you must show you are VAT Registered.

Hope this helps


Dave




Re: V.A.T. on domestic work
« Reply #10 on: July 03, 2009, 07:15:38 am »
vat

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/vat/managing/reclaiming/vat-receipts.htm#4

VAT receipts: what they have to show to be valid
If you're VAT registered, you can only reclaim VAT on purchases made for your business when you have a valid VAT invoice for the purchase.

This guide will help you make sure you can reclaim VAT on your purchases.

It explains how a VAT-registered supplier must give a VAT-registered buyer a VAT invoice if they ask for one. If a customer who is registered for VAT asks a supplier for a VAT invoice and they do not issue one, the supplier could be fined.

This guide also shows you what information must appear on valid VAT invoices such as the details of the supplier and their VAT registration number, and details of the goods or services purchased. It also tells you what are not valid VAT invoices and therefore cannot be used to reclaim VAT.

On this page:

You need a valid VAT invoice to reclaim VAT
VAT-registered suppliers must issue a VAT invoice
Information that must be shown on a valid VAT invoice
What is not a VAT invoice
Purchase invoice records and your VAT account
VAT invoices and imports
More useful links
You need a valid VAT invoice to reclaim VAT
Even if you are registered for VAT, you can only reclaim VAT (input tax) on your purchases if:

you buy an item and use it for business purposes
you have a valid VAT invoice for the purchase
Only VAT registered businesses can issue valid VAT invoices. You cannot reclaim VAT on any goods or services that you buy from a business that is not VAT registered.

Get information about reclaiming VAT

Get information about when you can reclaim VAT and when you can't

Top

VAT registered suppliers must issue a VAT invoice
If you are registered for VAT and do not receive a VAT invoice when you buy something from a VAT registered supplier, you should ask that supplier to give you one.

A VAT registered supplier must give you a VAT invoice if asked. If a customer who is registered for VAT asks a supplier for a VAT invoice and they do not issue one, the supplier could be fined.

There is a strict time limit on issuing VAT invoices. Your supplier must normally issue you with a VAT invoice within 30 days of the date you supply the goods or services - or if you paid in advance, the date the supplier received your payment. This is so you can claim back the VAT on the supply, if you're entitled to.

For goods, the time when the goods are considered to be supplied is the date when one of these happens:

you send the goods to the customer
the customer collects the goods from you
the goods (which are not either sent or collected) are made available for the customer to use - for example, if you are assembling something on the customer's premises
For services, the date when the services are considered to be supplied is the date when the service is carried out and all the work - except invoicing - is finished.

Find the exceptions to the 30-day rule in section 16.2.3 of VAT Notice 700

Find out what could happen if you do not issue a VAT invoice when asked to do so by a customer

Top

Information that must be shown on a VAT invoice
Find out what information must be shown on a VAT invoice

Top

What is not a VAT invoice
The following are not VAT invoices:

pro forma invoices
'this is not a tax invoice' invoices
statements
delivery notes
orders
letters, emails or other correspondence
You cannot reclaim the VAT you have paid on a purchase by using these documents as proof of payment.

Find out when transactions take place for VAT purposes

See our guide to sales and invoicing for VAT

Top

Purchase invoice records and your VAT account
It's a good idea to number your purchase invoices and record these numbers against the entries in your VAT account summary.

If you have a lot of invoices from one supplier - for example a number of small purchases - you do not have to record each invoice separately. For each VAT accounting period, you may keep them in batches and summarise the totals.

If the VAT rate changes you'll need to make sure that you're claiming back the correct amount of VAT, especially if you have a computerised accounting system that calculates the VAT for you. You can only claim back the amount of VAT that's shown on the invoice.

In your VAT account summary for purchases you must show separate totals as applicable for:

VAT you have been charged on your purchases
the VAT exclusive values of your purchases
VAT on imports - goods you bring in from outside the European Union (EU) and acquisitions from other EU countries
credits you have received from your suppliers
adjustments from special VAT schemes for example annual accounting
adjustments or errors in earlier returns
bad debt relief
purchases on which you cannot reclaim VAT, such as business entertainment expenses
Get information about keeping VAT records and accounts

Top

VAT invoices and imports
VAT is treated slightly differently on imports from outside the European Union (EU) and when you buy items (known as acquisitions) from other EU countries.

Find out about VAT on imports and acquisitions


dianegreenwood

  • Posts: 275
Re: V.A.T. on domestic work
« Reply #11 on: July 03, 2009, 09:42:36 am »
Hi all

You also have the option of joining the flat rate VAT scheme, where you charge an agreed rate for the industry, either 10% or 11% (check with HMRC).  You cannot claim VAT on purchases but as most of your costs will be wages then it may still be your best option.

You then have the option of charging 15% to commercial customers but 10% to domestic (which you would include in the hourly rate).  You then pay 10% on all sales but no reclaim on purchases.

Re VAT registering, has anyone had any experience of separating their commercial and domestic businesses as I am looking at this option in the next month or so.

Cheers

Diane

www.freshlymaid.co.uk

Gerry Styles

  • Posts: 558
Re: V.A.T. on domestic work
« Reply #12 on: July 04, 2009, 12:54:22 am »
If you are VAT registered then you must charge VAT at the rate set by the government. Domestic customers must accept that. Make it clear to them on your quotation. (if the go to any retail outlet there is no exception so why should they expect cleaning to be any different)
Premier Klean Limited

Re: V.A.T. on domestic work
« Reply #13 on: July 04, 2009, 06:07:16 am »
If you are VAT registered then you must charge VAT at the rate set by the government. Domestic customers must accept that. Make it clear to them on your quotation. (if the go to any retail outlet there is no exception so why should they expect cleaning to be any different)

Hi Gerry, No you missunderstood, the exception to the rule for retail, is the DISPLAY of the VAT not the rate. If you look at a receipt from currys it does not show VAT. But you can ask for one. Then you can claim back the VAT providing it was business related.


Dave

heritagecleaning

  • Posts: 713
Re: V.A.T. on domestic work
« Reply #14 on: July 06, 2009, 10:31:55 pm »
Dianne

You have not properly understood the flat rate scheme. You still charge vat at 15% to everyone but you only pay hmrc 11% of the vat inclusive amount. If you charged £100 + vat then the total payable by the client would be £115, but you would only pay £12.65 to hmrc rather than the full £15.

You've 'made' £2.35 which is your alternative to discounting actual purchase vat from the £15 vat on the sale.

Owen

Joe H

Re: V.A.T. on domestic work
« Reply #15 on: July 07, 2009, 11:18:29 am »
Seems odd that myvanwi who originated the thread and question about vat has not responded at all.
They have been on line as recently as yesterday. Peculiar.

myvanwi

Re: V.A.T. on domestic work
« Reply #16 on: July 09, 2009, 10:53:04 am »
I already know about how vat works. I was asking how people have found adding extra money (ie vat) onto clients rates when they already pay as much as they are prepared to. Has anyone recently had to start adding vat to domestic clients bills?

Gerry Styles

  • Posts: 558
Re: V.A.T. on domestic work
« Reply #17 on: July 10, 2009, 10:40:16 pm »
I already know about how vat works. I was asking how people have found adding extra money (ie vat) onto clients rates when they already pay as much as they are prepared to. Has anyone recently had to start adding vat to domestic clients bills?

If you are VAT registered then you must charge VAT at the rate set by the government. Make that clear to existing and new clients wether new or existing
Premier Klean Limited

Jason Ryan

  • Posts: 173
Re: V.A.T. on domestic work
« Reply #18 on: July 11, 2009, 02:04:46 pm »
Just woundering IF for example you had a company (that offerd carpet cleaning and commercial cleaning) that just passed the £68000 (e.g-£71000) so had to add VAT counldnt you have each service as SEPERATE companies but still offer both services but by subbing work from each other (if that makes sense)

So for example if company offerd both carpet cleaning and commercial cleaning and made £71000, (carpet cleans came to £45000 and commercial cleans came to £36000). If you split them into individual comanies then you would still fall a fair way below the £68000 required to must have to charge VAT

Is this allowed??

Cheers

Re: V.A.T. on domestic work
« Reply #19 on: July 11, 2009, 07:26:31 pm »
Jason,

Yes you can split the difference - Providing it is a different company! Talk to your accountant. Providing everything like costs, expenses, vat were kept seperate from each other then Yes.

You probably would not need to go VAT regiistered just because you go over the mark one year. Plus you cant just charge VAT. You need to be VAT registered first and have the Vat No.

Alternatively you could delay payment on the invoices to you so it went on the following year keeping you below the VAT threash-hold. That way you wont need to go VAT registered but not the best way of running a business.

Dave

Again your accountant should advise you.

Hope this helps

Dave