[Mike Halliday]

cut & pasted this from the ICS site

On the front page of the June 2009 Bane-Clene newsletter is an article with the title "Pre-Vacuuming required for all cleaning?"

In the article, Bill Bane makes the argument that the CRI (and I suppose, the IICRC) is in error for requiring that carpets be prevacuumed prior to cleaning.

"Vacuuming carpet, especially with an agitation device, stirs up dry soil and dispenses dust particles into the air. Hepa filter sales have increased thanks to the hyperbole about vacuuming. But the fact is tha most portable vacuums dispense dirty, rancid air back into the room atmosphere."

Mr Bane then goes on the explain that "Bane-Clene's ExternalExtraction with a gentle cleaning agent, wets the soil keeping it from becoming airborne. Moisture and soil are simultaneously extracted and exhausted through a sealed hose along with foul air to the outside of the building where it dissipates into the atmosphere. The results are faster drying carpet, minimal residue and a lingering clean fragrance."

What he seems to be saying is hwe, when properly performed, does not need prevacuuming. HWE will extract the soils by itself, and prevacuuming carpets, even with Hepa filtered vacuums, exposes the indoor environment to allergins and contaminants.

Do you agree or disagree with Mr. Bane?

[Neil Williams]

What he seems to be saying is hwe, when properly performed, does not need prevacuuming.

Rubbish.
What about hairs and other matter than get tangled into the pile? You're going to need a bit more than pre-spray, agitate and squirt/suck to get those out.

I've done some suites that looked 99.9% better just with a decent vacuuming. Now ask yourself why would you go straight in with hwe by creating a 'muddy mess' when vacuuming the hard bits out dry does the job.

[Griffus]

I always Pre-Vac as this is how I have been taught via NCCA and IICRC.

It also seems like best practice, especially considering some of the carpets I have seen. I even Pre-Vac if the customer tells me they have just vacuumed.

[heritagecleaning]

I'm only a beginner, but some of the carpets I've been over with the BS36 have looked 50% better immediately.

We bring lots of little stones in on our shoes at our house - wouldn't really want them going through the cc machine.


Owen

[Steve Chapman]

Do you normally vac your clothes before they go in the washing machine? 

I personally think the whole vacuuming thing is for the operators satisfaction and not the customers, unless you've got girt big bits on the carpets (which most of my custys dont) then they wont see any difference if you vac or not !

In any case if the hwe is not bringing out the soil, whats the point of doing it at all  :

steve

[Buster Ingram]

I have to say the only carpets I tend to vac are the rentals, usually mrs customer has already vacced before I arrive and rather than make her look silly I thank her for doing it and go straight on with pre spray and scrub.

But yes I have to say carpets do clean better when they have had a good vac first as it tends to open the pile allowing the pre spray to clean the pile rather than the surface dirt.

[Jim Gibbard]

Steve,
Could not agree more!!
I have been cleaning for over 20 years and have never pre vacuumed unless obviously required.
Why do the job twice.  My take on this system, is for the followers of high priced cleaning "guru's"
selling methods to justify their high price strategies.  It just stretches out the "cleaning" time.

Jim

[Shaun_Ashmore]

I see what you are saying and have often thought that customers that have their carpets cleaned are the ones that usually look after them and vacuum on a frequent basis, I think we all know the statistic that 80% of dirt in a carpet is dry dirt but is that based on a carpet that hasn't been vacuumed for a long period of time?

Don't they say that 86% of statistics are made up on the spot??

Shaun

[Steve Chapman]

I think some of the problem is newer ones look for a strict regime to follow to do a "professional" job each time, whereas in reality a little common sense  is a lot more valuable, just do what individual jobs require, experience has taught me you can still do a top job and only do whats really required, after all most are in business to make some money, why do something if its not really necessary, never really understood that!

steve

[Jim Gibbard]

Shaun,
Statistics, statistics, they can mean whatever the promoter of said statistics needs to proove.

Sometimes, you believe them at your peril.  you can get sucked in to the latest "Best System".

What doe's it  matter if their vacuum cleaner is crap?  Your cleaning system can tackle "ANYTHING"
It's personal, do what you are comfortable with and what you feel is right.  It's your choice.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it!!

Jim

[clinton]

Must say i do not vac on all jobs and agree with some of the above posts that most dont require a vac as the householder vacs on a regular basis,maybe a trashed rental thats covered with all sorts and thats just to protect my machines..

[Neil Williams]

I have been to numerous properties where yes they use a vacuum cleaner on a regular basis to a large degree to a good standard but i have yet to come across a single one where I haven't needed to pre vac somewhere.
The favorite is along edges where the carpet is pinned down between gripper and wall. So we use the edging tool don't we, a wand no matter how brilliant it is, isn't going to deal with that.
As for the comparrison with washing cloths, in relative terms that would be the equiliant of 'washing' carpets in about 300 gallons of water.

[Mike Halliday]

there are a couple of question that are in my mind as I read the replies.

So if I don't vac are the pro-vaccers saying the end result will not be as clean and if so, how do we know? will it be visibly dirty?

how do we know that the dirt that is left because we don't vac will not be picked up by the vacuum of the extractor?

I think a lot of assumptions are made with this topic.

and the biggest load of rubbish (IMO) is the 'mud' example to say spraying solution onto a un-vacuumed carpet will create a mud like substance which will be impossible to remove is ridiculous.

I think vacuuming is part of a whole myth within carpet cleaning which is perpetuated by the older members of our profession dating back to when we had weak single vac machine which need all the help they could get to remove the dirt.
 
we need to have some proper testing to answer some major myths which are constantly quoted as though they are written on tablets of stone in some ancient temple of carpet cleaning.

[daysdeepclean]

Don't they say that 86% of statistics are made up on the spot??

Shaun

It's actually 87%......

[Mike Osbourne]

I think it slightly depends on what you are HWE on as well.

If you have a low power portie with little heat, you need all the help you can get and vaccing can help you along.

If you have a Titan the heat, force and suck will open up the pile and suck the life out of and hair/debris etc.

At the end of the day it's a balance to get the excellent perceived result and your time (money).

[carpet_care]

I always vacuum unless the customer has left it immaculate which is very rare ,never used to if there where just a few bits about but once I got a holed glide it became an essential part of the job.

 Think it looks as if you care more in the customers eyes aswell, also stops the filter clogging up so quick on the prowler aswell.


 regards Andy Locke.

[Steve Barnett (Carpet Care Plus)]

When I first started I used to pre-vac on every job, now I only do it when obviously required.

Plus having vacuumed, I then use the sebo duo which brings up a load of fluff therefore slightly defeating the object.

Steve

[Neil Williams]

and the biggest load of rubbish (IMO) is the 'mud' example to say spraying solution onto a un-vacuumed carpet will create a mud like substance which will be impossible to remove is ridiculous.

Try reading what I wrote again, I didn't say impossible to remove

[richy27]

all depends if i feel it is required more than not it is in my opinion.

[richie]

Some people just like to make more work for themselves when it is not required.  If it is obvious due to crap and bits all over the carpet then yes vac it.  CCs that say pre vac is required on ALL carpets must only clean the carpets that never see a vaccuum.

Richie.