[Fieldsy]

Having now established a good round for both of us and earning a comfortable wage from it, my partner and I would like to expand, and we have been offered another round which would be too much for us to work...........but the idea is that we want to build a good established business and not just be happy on our laurels and just take the same money every month. The idea is to build, build and continue building to make it a business success. It may only be a pipe dream, but I am determined to make a go of it.

Anyway, to the point...

With an extra round, would you?

A) Employ somebody to do the round and take a cut, i.e give someone a job, and take a percentage, with the employee being responsible for own tax and NI ect...
B) Rent the round out.


If there is a C), I'd be interested to know what this could be

Any advantages/disadvantages of any of the above would very much be appreciated.

Just looking for some advice really from anyone who has gone down this route.

thanks

Fieldsy

[Sapphire Window Cleaning]

I would take someone on part time on a self employed basis until there is enough work for him (or her) to work fulltime.
All businesses start of as a pipe dream, just make smaller intermitent goals, this will keep you hungry for more.




Hope you have a lot of success



Matt

[Robin Ray]

If you can get enough work from the two rounds take two people on. One with you one with your partner. That way you can train them up and keep an eye on quality at the same time.

Rob

[Fieldsy]

Thanks very much for the input fellas, both are sound ideas. Thanks


Keep 'em coming...lol

[Fieldsy]

On the basis of taking someone on part time, what percentage would you pay them???  i.e if the round was worth £1600 a month would you consider taking a percentage of this or pay a weekly wage??

[Window Washers]

Employ the right way and build you business, everything is a gamble in business, if there is 2 of you as said employ other and seperate with new employee's you may find that you only need one, really does depend on whats on the table the pricing etc.

Good luck,

it does have it's stress's I will be honest, but with that comes more income if done correctly

[Window Washers]

On the basis of taking someone on part time, what percentage would you pay them???  i.e if the round was worth £1600 a month would you consider taking a percentage of this or pay a weekly wage??

You would need to work out the cost of running this round first before you know what you could pay. A set wage they will get complacent, give them a reason to work harder and they will 

[Sapphire Window Cleaning]

depends if he is experienced or not, if he is then if you pay him £50 per day he needs to earn you £150.
If he isnt experienced then set a wage at £150 and give him 4-6 weeks to get up to speed. remembering that he is learning the trade.





Matt

[Fieldsy]

Thanks once again for all the helpful advice, much appreciated. It will be a learning process for me as I've never been in this position before, so it will be step by step..lol

[Fieldsy]

Hi Ewan,

No not really, we have enough to fill our days and give a wage comparable to what I was earning as a skilled tradesman, which I am quite happy with. My intention is to gather more rounds, and employ/sub contract so that I keep the round, but able to take a small percentage from it, and in turn giving someone else some employment. I have recently been out (within the last half hour) and been told of possibly another round in the near future. They seem to be coming thick and fast....lol. As much as I would like to have them, without knowing what direction to take in order to keep them running its going to be difficult to make moves on them.
 I don't really want/require premises, so as to keep overheads as low as possible at an early stage. I have ambitions Ewan, but don't want to run before I can walk....lol

I would possibly be thinking of two more rounds over and above what I already have, probs in the region of £3000 per month income. From this I would like to make a percentage which would obviously top up the existing income and still own the rounds.

thanks for all the input.

Fieldsy

[groundhog]

From this I would like to make a percentage which would obviously top up the existing income and still own the rounds.


Fieldsy

Trouble is that you don't actually own anything! Whats to stop your self employed chap just deciding that he dosn't actually want to pay you a cut anymore, and have your customers for himself? What could you possibly do about it? 

[daniel worgan]

This is why i believe that the window cleaning industry will go more into franchising as time goes by.

[Fieldsy]

Thats what I was thinking Ewan. Basically collection or receipt of payment would be done by ourselves and would advise the customers accordingly that payment should be made to us only. I know its an awkward one, but there must be some way of employing without the worry of someone nicking your round. ESPECIALLY!!!!, if it is one you may have paid a significant amount of money for.

I can certainly see where daniel is coming from when he says it could be franchised.........you only have to look at these car cleaning companies and wheelie bin companies who run franchises........do they worry that their customers will be taken by the people working the franchise???...........but then again 9 times out of ten they have been paid a vast amount of money for the franchise in the first place.

To be honest is there any difference in the car cleaning franchises I have seen and window cleaning?? You are providing a cleaning service to an individual. Are the customers of these franchises (car cleaning) contracted to the company providing the service. I would be interested to know.

Now there's a thought , sell a good round as a franchise for £15-£20 grand, give the franchiser the round, and then who cares if he nicks your custys...lol

[williamx]

You have to be very carefull when you start employing people, there are so many laws that you can trip over and they will cost you loads of money if yu make a mistake.

As for only paying a weekly rate of £150 a week until they are fully trained, on that amount of money all you can expect them to work is 26 hours per week, because thats what the minimum wage comes too.

If you take them on a self employed basis, then they have to prove to the tax man that they already earn money from other sources apart from you, if they only earn money from you, then the taxman will not reconise them as self employed but employed and you will be fines and have back taxes to pay.

You can on your contract of employment have clauses attached that state that the customers belong to your company and if they try to take them away from you, then they can be taken to court and you will win with costs.

You really need to speak to a HR company who will advise you, I can recommend "Hilary Rose Personnel" who work for me.

They are willing to go anywhere in the Uk, their telephone number is 0121 447 7947

Say I recommended them as well please.

[Clive McDonald]

This won't work- expansion in the way you suggest. The business model is flawed for a number of reasons.

Hydra and ww have told you how to do it pretty much. Building on solid foundations( ;)ww), put another van on the road. When that can't cope get another.Don't get into debt to do it. (well not much)

Expansion usually does incurr debt though. I don't buy work, but i do spend a lot on marketing.

[bluez]

I also started as a 2 man partnership.

IMO there is no way to expand that does not bring you into contact with potential issues like employment law, ie. sub contractor or employee, minimum pay rates, holiday pay etc. even renting out your new round opens up the potential for someone else to try and take your customers and how it will be view by revenue is open to interpretion.

My experience of expanding was one where I tried to go down the employing route and to avoid my staff becoming over familiar with my customers I provided daily work sheets so that they never knew where they would be in advance or when they would next be back and I was able to move them from area to area as I felt it was necessary. It also helped to create the impression that I was constantly developing new work (which I was but not to the extent it appeared). The alternative is to give them a round which they quickly become familiar with and begin to feel possesive of.

This worked pretty well overall but when employing you have to accept that a staff member who will work loyally and consistantly over a long period of time is a rarity and you will regularly have to consider their input and change them up when you see them begining to not proform.
 
Most good businesses have very strong systems in place for things like cash collection, proformance evaluation, information transfer, training etc.

Lots of thought should go into the systems first before you employ then remember they are your staff not your buddies never let them work without you earning a decent margin. Thats business.

[Clive McDonald]

Good post.I don't pretend to know some of the things said but agree with all of it.

[Fieldsy]

Thanks for all the informative input, Its been a great post and all the information is gratefully welcomed. I DO want to make a good attempt at this, and as I say not one to rest on my laurels. I want to make it bigger and successful. Most businesses seem to rely on their employees getting their wage and continuing without their employees wanting to take it over, but this business seems to open a can of worms...........i.e people pinching your custys. I think I will have to knuckle down, sit down and work the pros, cons, advantages and disadvantages and what route to take. I am one to take a gamble and have done over the last few weeks in order to get work and progress.

I know I can do it, its just having the know how and advice to how to go about it.

Thanks once again ppl much appreciated.

[Clive McDonald]

But for the business model to work the hourly rate must be high, 30ish.And even then when you go over the vat threshold it's still tight.

So if you are buying in 20ph work you'll go skint.

[Steve Mac]

I wish you all the best Fieldsy. I'm hoping to get to the point you're at now. I know there's potential to expand, it seems like it all boils down to finding employees you can trust and keeping them sweet enough to work for you. You sound like you've got the drive and the right attitude, so i'm sure you'll do well.