[john k]

just got a phone call from a customer saying my employee has scratched his window today while cleaning them can't figure out how he has done this we use wfp any idea's

[ftp]

scraping bird poo off with the brush stock?

[john k]

i go on holiday tommorrow told him i'll go see him when i get back to sort it out i thought he might be trying it on!

[NBwcs]

"scraping bird poo off with the brush stock?"

Ive managed to scratch glass doing this so its quite possible.

[Sapphire Window Cleaning]

I thought the brush block was made from a rubbery plastic?
I have needed to scrub bird poo off a window as i just go round the house first and soak the poo, by the time you come to those windows it washes of quite easily.




Matt

[Sunshine/Cleaning]

Resting the brush or just catching it on the stonework will collect debris. Move this stuff up and down the window and it will scratch.

[vision tech]

sunshine has just found another reason not
to go wfp

[carlm]

ive been faced with the same problem twice in four years of wfp.
One retired custy who lived alone  had A complaint of a scratched bedroom window  , after a coffee and some head scratchin he mentioned he'd just moved into that room  from another room.
 That room was a seventies teenage time casket of his now 39 yr old married with kids son and been empty for years  ... think it became apparent to custy at the moment it did to me .CLASSIC.
 

seemed my other custy  just wanted new windows he did have quite deep scratches on his window but was very like scratches made by a glass scraper used when we were on ladders localized in a small area and unlike in any fashion to the usual movement to the brush head when cleaning , as weve never been any where near 18ft away from the window i.e never laddered the property we had no idea if they were there b4 we ever began cleaning .
He also mentioned debris on the brush ..... nonsense   how much pressure would you have to put on your pole and how much or un-noticable debris could your brush hold  to damage a window in such a way ?
 my customer through conversation , the state of damage and his suggestions said all   >:(but suppose all  circumstances are different.

[chris@c.m.s]

I think you put more pressure on the glass scrubbing with an applicator than the bristles of a brush could provide, scratches become more noticeable after glass is cleaned with wfp as it cleans them and the sunlight then refracts off of them.   

[gary999]

it is possible to scratch glass with debris on bristles ive seen it as
it has happened same with sills and frames have seen scratches appear as
i was cleaning i no longer use monofilament brushes as it was these i was using
when it has happened and after first cleans i only rinse frames now unless
its absolutely necessary to scrub them.

[[GQC] Tim]

it is possible to scratch glass with debris on bristles ive seen it as
it has happened same with sills and frames have seen scratches appear as
i was cleaning i no longer use monofilament brushes as it was these i was using
when it has happened and after first cleans i only rinse frames now unless
its absolutely necessary to scrub them.

Completely untrue. Otherwise all my windows would be scratched. You must have done something wrong.

Monofilament brushes are actually less likely to scratch since they hold less dirt then flocked brushes, and even then you have to dip your brush in a bucket of grit to do so.

[Ian_Giles]

Scratching glass with the bristles of the brush...no way!

If you transfer that principle to trad cleaning then all windows would be a mass of scratches from applicators picking up debris,  you put far more direct pressure with an applicator than you can do with a brush.
Even when pressing hard it can take bloody ages to wash of bird poo for instance with WFP, with an applicator you just press with the end of the washer and scrub it off in seconds, you even get the abrasive strips on some applicators for just that reason.

Scratched sills?...not with the bristles of the brush, this happens where the stock rubs along the sill, the actual bristles won't cause it.

Neither will glass get scratched as a result of debris on the bristles, but where the stock can get roughed up, stone debris can get stuck in the stock and that can certainly scratch the glass if you use the stock of the brush to remove some stuck on muck.
Seagull poo can also be gritty and hard to remove so even with a clean, smooth stock I for one would not recommend using the stock to scrub it off!

Deny responsibility, go around there, give the customer your equipment and ask him to try and deliberately scratch the glass, he won't be able to.
It's all very well saying the window cleaner has scratched the glass, but in practice it is highly unlikely to have been him unless he has done something different from normal.

Ian

[simon knight]

Seagull poo can also be gritty and hard to remove



Ian

I don't suppose many of us have ever rubbed a bit of seagull poo between thumb and forefinger to test it's consistency so I guess we'll just have to take your word on that one Ian 

[gary999]

it is possible to scratch glass with debris on bristles ive seen it as
it has happened same with sills and frames have seen scratches appear as
i was cleaning i no longer use monofilament brushes as it was these i was using
when it has happened and after first cleans i only rinse frames now unless
its absolutely necessary to scrub them.

Completely untrue. Otherwise all my windows would be scratched. You must have done something wrong.

Monofilament brushes are actually less likely to scratch since they hold less dirt then flocked brushes, and even then you have to dip your brush in a bucket of grit to do so.

i didnt say every window would be scratched but if you pick up debris such
as grit you can scratch glass you are entitled to your opinion but i have seen it happen before my own eyes

[gary999]

Scratching glass with the bristles of the brush...no way!

If you transfer that principle to trad cleaning then all windows would be a mass of scratches from applicators picking up debris,  you put far more direct pressure with an applicator than you can do with a brush.
Even when pressing hard it can take bloody ages to wash of bird poo for instance with WFP, with an applicator you just press with the end of the washer and scrub it off in seconds, you even get the abrasive strips on some applicators for just that reason.

Scratched sills?...not with the bristles of the brush, this happens where the stock rubs along the sill, the actual bristles won't cause it.

Neither will glass get scratched as a result of debris on the bristles, but where the stock can get roughed up, stone debris can get stuck in the stock and that can certainly scratch the glass if you use the stock of the brush to remove some stuck on muck.
Seagull poo can also be gritty and hard to remove so even with a clean, smooth stock I for one would not recommend using the stock to scrub it off!

Deny responsibility, go around there, give the customer your equipment and ask him to try and deliberately scratch the glass, he won't be able to.
It's all very well saying the window cleaner has scratched the glass, but in practice it is highly unlikely to have been him unless he has done something different from normal.

Ian

again you are entitled to your opinion but again i have seen my own eyes
how the brush with no stock contact causes scratches,you only have to run
your finger nail across a sill and this can cause light scatching repeated use over time especially with the side to side motion people use on sills deepens these
scratches until the customer notices.this no longer happens to me as much
due to only rinsing frames unless its absolutley necessary to scrub and i dont clean the sills with brush anymore

[Ian_Giles]

Seagull poo can also be gritty and hard to remove



Ian

I don't suppose many of us have ever rubbed a bit of seagull poo between thumb and forefinger to test it's consistency so I guess we'll just have to take your word on that one Ian 

I had one guy working for me a few years ago who used his fingernail to scrape off some bird poo...then whacked his finger on a georgian frame...ever sucked your finger after whacking it? Well I can guarantee that this guy now always thinks twice before he does so! 

[GWCS]

Scratching glass with the bristles of the brush...no way!

If you transfer that principle to trad cleaning then all windows would be a mass of scratches from applicators picking up debris,  you put far more direct pressure with an applicator than you can do with a brush.
Even when pressing hard it can take bloody ages to wash of bird poo for instance with WFP, with an applicator you just press with the end of the washer and scrub it off in seconds, you even get the abrasive strips on some applicators for just that reason.

Scratched sills?...not with the bristles of the brush, this happens where the stock rubs along the sill, the actual bristles won't cause it.

Neither will glass get scratched as a result of debris on the bristles, but where the stock can get roughed up, stone debris can get stuck in the stock and that can certainly scratch the glass if you use the stock of the brush to remove some stuck on muck.
Seagull poo can also be gritty and hard to remove so even with a clean, smooth stock I for one would not recommend using the stock to scrub it off!

Deny responsibility, go around there, give the customer your equipment and ask him to try and deliberately scratch the glass, he won't be able to.
It's all very well saying the window cleaner has scratched the glass, but in practice it is highly unlikely to have been him unless he has done something different from normal.

Ian

again you are entitled to your opinion but again i have seen my own eyes
how the brush with no stock contact causes scratches,you only have to run
your finger nail across a sill and this can cause light scatching repeated use over time especially with the side to side motion people use on sills deepens these
scratches until the customer notices.this no longer happens to me as much
due to only rinsing frames unless its absolutley necessary to scrub and i dont clean the sills with brush anymore

ive read a couple of guys that have had that happen.

I used a scrim or microfibre to clean of the lower sills - i dont use a brush on them. It encourages all the dirt and spider web mess to get into the brush. It allows me to check on the lower windows before i leave - just incase 

[simon knight]

Seagull poo can also be gritty and hard to remove



Ian

I don't suppose many of us have ever rubbed a bit of seagull poo between thumb and forefinger to test it's consistency so I guess we'll just have to take your word on that one Ian 

I had one guy working for me a few years ago who used his fingernail to scrape off some bird poo...then whacked his finger on a georgian frame...ever sucked your finger after whacking it? Well I can guarantee that this guy now always thinks twice before he does so! 

Cheers mate, I was eating my lunch as I read this 

[Ian_Giles]

Have had a very short working day today, a quick £60 and and back home again, but while out there I experimented with sills, using my fingernail to see if I could mark some of them, ditto the brush and brush stock.

Result?

Well my fingernail couldn't make any impact whatsoever, especially on new sills, same for brush and brush stock, but on older sills, those that have had a fair amount of weathering, the stock of the brush left clean marks, that on brief inspection could certainly be taken for scratches, I would more or less hazard that the majority of these lines you can see appear on sills will always be on well weathered ones and they are marks that appear as you scuff a clean patch (even if that is a thin line) use a cream cleaner and I'll bet these lines will miraculously disappear and the sill will look brand new.
On older still windows where a lot of oxidisation has occurred I would think it might be possible to make deeper marks depending on the depth of the oxidisation.

I've been WFP for 5 years now and have always washed frames and sills with the brush, where the frames are concerned I have yet to see the slightest mark on them from being scrubbed with the brush...although I have most certainly chipped paintwork with the stock, especially on sash windows...but not scratched them...

Ian

[Sunshine/Cleaning]

sunshine has just found another reason not
to go wfp

 

Very good. I have had more problems with aplicators and bits of masonary than with WFP.
Another good reason to do the switch.