[mark Steenson]

i new to the forum hi ever one ... i be starting a window cleaning business up in northern ireland .. i did it over 20 years ago for 6 years looking to get back into but using the pole system ... was wondering does any one have any feed back on using Concept 2O system as it alot of money to spend and was wondering if it really works as they say  or better to go with ironic system .. any feed back  good or bad welcome

[Dean Aspects]

Never used the systems but they are both good if somewhat over priced but i have heard the people that have them swear by them

So if your mind is set on Concept 2o or Ionics go for it

Why not try something cheaper but does the same job like brodex or purefreedom or many others

Of course you could also diy a system but i will let others that know more tell you about that

[heathrow100]

I done quite a bit of research to buying my system,I can recommend highly Pure Freedom for value and quality.

[lee k]

A mate has  a Hot water Concept system swears by it, Had it 2 years now nice bit of kit

[GWCS]

Many people also recommend the Vartiech system, including the hot water add on.

[Clive McDonald]

concept is the best.

There are other considerations besides price. Do you live in a house with a garage, garden, off street parking, and a bit of room?

If you do then it's best to make the water at home and transfer it (imo), rather than make it on the van.

Everything you need- and i mean the very best kit- for under £4000.(apart from the van) But you will have to do some research.

[Mr T]

try arthur at sure clean systems omagh.  got my van mount system of him 3 months ago, great job.  alot cheaper than concept 20 although not knocking there products as they seem top quality.

[ftp]

I think concept20 were offering more than just a system. I think they were trying to push the Concept image forwards by offering a wrapped vehicle, branded stationary and even some canvassing to get you started. I don't know if they still do. Lovely kit but it won't make you a bean without the work. The systems themselves don't make the money - you do. Have a look at all the options then decide what's best for you.

[Clive McDonald]

I think we know a bit too much ftp and it clutters our thinking. All the guys who don't think, just plunge in with ionics or concept, never go on forums or mix with other opinionated wc's, seem to make a very good go of there businesses.

I did it on the cheap, and wasted months tiddling about. I think we-and others- are in the top percentiles for smarts and dosh, but if i did it all again i would go for the dearest branded system i could find.

As you say, the work is what earns the money, but being able to chase that, and having the confidence behind you, and the motivation of some great tools to use and look at, helps in this too.

I mean, by the time you've faffed about with vacuum cleaners and guttering down pipe, that omnivac probably works out cheaper.It's too late for us now, we've made our choices, but we could have made different ones and done even better.

How many hours have we wasted on this blinkin forum tying to save five pee?

I've just ordered a ladda limpet-£90- grrr....

[Nathanael Jones]

try arthur at sure clean systems omagh.  got my van mount system of him 3 months ago, great job.  alot cheaper than concept 20 although not knocking there products as they seem top quality.

I'll second that,.. Arthur give top notch service and advice,.. he's close to you, and his prices are very good too. I get most of my gear from him,.. I only buy elsewhere if he doesn't sell what I need!

[Clive McDonald]

All those with a high post count have become institutionalised and very constrained in their thinking.This forum is a great resource and a gold mine of info for newbs, but many, like ewan have become stuck in the goldfish bowl of their own thoughts.

Driving a clapped out van and waving a harris pole about for too long have made him think he's a guru of wfp biz and tech.Stop baffling yourself with other peoples problems Duncan bannantyne and try and solve a few of your own, like how are you going to get your rust bucket through it's next mot!

[ftp]

  Clive, you make me laugh (occasionally).

If i started all over again I still wouldn't buy top of the range systems and wouldn't waste my money on a genuine Guttervac. The only thing I would do different would be to have my tank fitted with a cage and done professionally.
 Maybe. just maybe, buying work might have been a good idea but I'm not convinced.
Each to their own. 

[Clive McDonald]

Sorry ewan, didn't think it was worth wasteing time with an argument so just went straight to the name calling.

I see so many go away in exasperation after arguing with you and thought this a better tactic.But don't let me spoil your day ewan i'm only joking.

The slightly clever side of me always thinks that you will come back with- well i've got a new van as it happens and a top factory fitted system- because loads of times you've been chalenged as to if you even have a system, or are even a window cleaner.

we have to learn by our mistakes, i had a trailer for instance and it was useless. I had a 300gpd, and i thought that was good untill i got a 4040.

I've probably outgrown my van too. I need a two man system- and the other side of my probem is finding the man and how much to pay him etc. Cleantech are sending me a tee for my tank- that'll give me two lots of water.All the other stuff i already have as duplicates(yes even the electric reel you'll be pleased to hear). But not the man.

[newpy]

We've got a Concept system (cold), and a ionics pro 5 (cold). Couldn't stretch the funds to a hot.

Concept have a decent website where you can compare for yourself the differences between them and ionics products.

We are happy with ours though, we never went down the fully branded route as we were already established, the branding is good and looks the biz, i notice that ionics have stepped up another notch with their new website and swish new poles.
Of course to have all the Concept 2o marketing material given to you costs more, and so does the wrapped van! The back up support when / if you have a problem is excellent, and the build quality is excellent. Yes, both systems produce pure water, the concept produces less waste then the pro 5, but there is always the pro 6 to consider!
All hose fittings are either brass or klaber on the concept2o and are better quality than what were on our ionic pro5.


If your dead set on investing the money then have a demo off both and then make your mind up!

 

[macmac]

I think we know a bit too much ftp and it clutters our thinking. All the guys who don't think, just plunge in with ionics or concept, never go on forums or mix with other opinionated wc's, seem to make a very good go of there businesses.

I did it on the cheap, and wasted months tiddling about. I think we-and others- are in the top percentiles for smarts and dosh, but if i did it all again i would go for the dearest branded system i could find.

As you say, the work is what earns the money, but being able to chase that, and having the confidence behind you, and the motivation of some great tools to use and look at, helps in this too.

I mean, by the time you've faffed about with vacuum cleaners and guttering down pipe, that omnivac probably works out cheaper.It's too late for us now, we've made our choices, but we could have made different ones and done even better.

How many hours have we wasted on this blinkin forum tying to save five pee?

I've just ordered a ladda limpet-£90- grrr....

We only see what they tell us though slumpy, or maybe what they want us to see/believe.

Not many people would spend 20k then come on here to say they made a mistake. Some would granted, but majority not IMO.

As in many things in life, things are very different inside than what they appear from the outside.

Think of your mental list ( I have one ) of members on here, the ones who appear honest & you trust & the ones you know are taking every available oppertunity to "big themselves up" & who's text you know you can dismiss as rubbish. Ok for us but an unsuspecting newby wouldn't be blessed with that "list"

My advice to the original poster- think very carefully, & be wise to who you take advice from. Beware of the over-hype of wfp systems & of wfp itself.

[matt]

I think we know a bit too much ftp and it clutters our thinking. All the guys who don't think, just plunge in with ionics or concept, never go on forums or mix with other opinionated wc's, seem to make a very good go of there businesses.

I did it on the cheap, and wasted months tiddling about. I think we-and others- are in the top percentiles for smarts and dosh, but if i did it all again i would go for the dearest branded system i could find.

As you say, the work is what earns the money, but being able to chase that, and having the confidence behind you, and the motivation of some great tools to use and look at, helps in this too.

I mean, by the time you've faffed about with vacuum cleaners and guttering down pipe, that omnivac probably works out cheaper.It's too late for us now, we've made our choices, but we could have made different ones and done even better.

How many hours have we wasted on this blinkin forum tying to save five pee?

I've just ordered a ladda limpet-£90- grrr....

We only see what they tell us though slumpy, or maybe what they want us to see/believe.

Not many people would spend 20k then come on here to say they made a mistake. Some would granted, but majority not IMO.

its funny the people on here who rave about the systems they were convinced were the only thing to buy, yet, i have a fair number of e.mails / PM on the DIY forum from people who have paid for the fancy all singing systems and then found the forums and found out that they could have had a much cheaper system and saved thousands of pounds, i have a guy on my e.mail contact list who started off being sold a system by a very good salesman for a certain seller, he has since got 2 other vans on the road and these both have a tank in the rear ( in a cage ) and then he has fitted it out himself and he still laughs about all the money he could have saved, as it happens this same guy told me at the weekend he had just phoned a fishing shop and got a deal on Grandeslam Energie 8 and 11 M Poles ( after i posted about them on rogers thread ), he asked then what type of deal he could get if he spent 500 quid on them
his thoughts were loads of spares for when they break

its funny that behind closed doors away from the people who judge on here, people are different

[Clive McDonald]

Some very sensible and well considered points mac and matt. To the extent that i big myself up it's only to relieve the boredom.Having admitted that you both made very good points investment always pays off and that's just a fact.

The guy who now has three vans may find it laughable that he 'wasted' so much money on his first, but it did make him a success and he was able to avoid the learning curve that most of us have to scale.

Mac-mac's comments were particularly astute. I'd never thought about his mental list before, but i suppose that we do all have one.Some people are good in some areas and rubbish in others. Most of us would have arrived at more or less the same point no matter how we had approached things early on.

As for judging others well that's something we all do, and a lot of us are competitive too.On another thread a guy has 400 customers after 4mths and talks in very sensible terms about his business.But it won't surprise Matt to learn that i would love to turbo charge some of this guys ideas.

[macmac]

The guy who now has three vans may find it laughable that he 'wasted' so much money on his first, but it did make him a success and he was able to avoid the learning curve that most of us have to scale.
 

How do you know that? You are assuming this because of your fixation with "branded product equals success"

There's every chance (and more) that this guy's van had nothing to do with how well he'd done up to that point.

Did his van go out & build his business up by itself?
Did his van make him do a better job?
Did his van change him as a person?
etc.etc

IMO this guy's van probably had the least influence on what he acheived.

This is not a dig but I can't understand why you seem to need to award success to anything other than yourself? i.e. Why can't you have success without a branded system or george?

[Clive McDonald]

People do business with people and things they know like and trust.And those qualities are what a brand are (apart from when it's aspirational).

That's why we go to Mcdonalds etc.


I use this fact to promote myself.This is the bit i believe that i'm good at, the bit i might be rubbish at is the leadership and employing.I'd be very happy to look at your systems and suggest improvements and rev you up a bit.

[macmac]

People do business with people and things they know like and trust.And those qualities are what a brand are (apart from when it's aspirational).

That's why we go to Mcdonalds etc.


I use this fact to promote myself.This is the bit i believe that i'm good at, the bit i might be rubbish at is the leadership and employing.I'd be very happy to look at your systems and suggest improvements and rev you up a bit.

 

But, we are talking window cleaning & not multi-billion dollar global business.