[cozy]

So we are gonna get this every day now. WFP is better than ladders, blah, blah,...No, ladders are better, blah, blah, blah.
This is getting silly.
I lose customers nearly every month in Afghanistan, I don't post it in here.

If guys want to use WFP then good luck. To bring it up every day is bordering on snobbery. It's the same as all these "I won't get out of bed for less than 200 quid"  brigade.

I can see the answers coming already, "Only wanted to say what a shame it is", yeah right but the thread gets highjacked and away it goes into WFP is the best thing since sliced bread.

Some WFP guys need to stop and think why it is that EVERYONE isn't using it.

Horses for courses,but if I was ever in a position where I wouldn't know how to clean insides because I couldn't do trad then I wouldn't come on here and post garbage like "Trad is for old fashioned losers".

Some of the blokes on here are shouting the odds about how fantastic WFP is and on their next post they are asking all sorts of questions about how to fix this or that as they can't get out to earn a crust because they have no plan B.

We all live in the same world, things are dangerous enough without having "Ladders are dangerous so go WFP" rammed down your neck all the time.

Don't forget people, ONLY use ladders as a last resort, they are really really dangerous.

[Moderator David@stives]

Cozy

I have split the post, I want to keep the other post for paying respects to the family.

[cozy]

OK, no probs

[macmac]

I agree

It's boring, very, very boring : : : :

Giving some people a brush & stick is like giving the (previously unknown) security man his uniform & badge!

I think some need a reality check to realise how irrelevant & un-important they actually are!

WFP IS NOT A TOTAL SOLUTION & THE QUICKER THE ELITE REALISE THIS THE BETTER.

[Jeff Brimble]

Is it a case Cozy ? no its just a part of it, the other reason for me is that it earns me more money and is easier.Work smarter not harder.

[cozy]

Yes Jeff, That's why YOU use it, that's why I would change if it had more pros than cons for me. This post wasn't started by me, it was split fom another thread by Dave.

There are very good reasons for WFP but on the other thread it was starting to go down the "Holier than Thou" route.

It seems threads seem to get drawn off track and the odd few want to go "Hollywood" and blurt on about how it's the way forward etc etc.

We are all window cleaners. That's what we do. Nothing more, it's not as skilled and technical as some pretend it is. How long does it take to train a windy so that he can work most jobs alone? Not a 3 year course is it?

[simon knight]

We are all window cleaners. That's what we do. Nothing more, it's not as skilled and technical as some pretend it is. How long does it take to train a windy so that he can work most jobs alone? Not a 3 year course is it?

Training? Was ist training? I did a job 2 days ago, while I was doing outs the custy did ins....her result was no better no worse than I could have achieved...hate to say it she may have done 'em slightly better

[macmac]

Yes Jeff, That's why YOU use it, that's why I would change if it had more pros than cons for me. This post wasn't started by me, it was split fom another thread by Dave.

There are very good reasons for WFP but on the other thread it was starting to go down the "Holier than Thou" route.

It seems threads seem to get drawn off track and the odd few want to go "Hollywood" and blurt on about how it's the way forward etc etc.

We are all window cleaners. That's what we do. Nothing more, it's not as skilled and technical as some pretend it is. How long does it take to train a windy so that he can work most jobs alone? Not a 3 year course is it?

There’s a huge difference in being an employed window cleaner & a self employed window cleaner.

Most on here say that it could take 3 to 5 years to have a decent window cleaning round, then start earning a decent profit and benefit from all your hard work and have real success. (That’s only if you are able to do this, not everybody can.)

All this takes longer than training for other trades.

If some window cleaners are able to earn £40k plus and you can’t, then maybe you should go and train to be a plumber, electrician or similar it would be a lot quicker for you.

What's that rubbish got to do with this topic?

[Helen]

We are all window cleaners. That's what we do. Nothing more, it's not as skilled and technical as some pretend it is. How long does it take to train a windy so that he can work most jobs alone? Not a 3 year course is it?

You are right we are all window cleaners in some form or other and that has not changed for decades and decades. Whichever method you use there is skill involved. WFP is more technical than Trad, but still is not rocket science. What has changed (in the UK as I appreciate you are in Germany) is that window cleaning is not the "odd job" to make up your beer money type of work anymore. It is not hidden away anymore and is classed as a professional business.
Window Cleaning businesses whether they employ other or not, quite rightly should have to follow rules and regs and HSE matters. It is not a case of which method is better, but is a case of which method is safer, which conforms to regs etc etc. Accidents will happen, they do in every form of life, but this is no reason to take unfounded risks because "ah that's life" . I take it that you are Trad and that is fine if that suits you and I have no idea about the regs in Germany so cant comment on them. But just think on, If you were to come off your ladders and injure yourself so badly that you can't work for 6 months and it had been possible to do that job another safer way which allows you to carry on working, you may well think twice before climbing the rungs the next time
We operate both WFP and Trad methods. Trad is now for insides only and a few and I mean a few where wfp is not suited. When we carry out trad methods from a ladder we work as safely as possible, there is no compromise.

[macmac]

Yes Jeff, That's why YOU use it, that's why I would change if it had more pros than cons for me. This post wasn't started by me, it was split fom another thread by Dave.

There are very good reasons for WFP but on the other thread it was starting to go down the "Holier than Thou" route.

It seems threads seem to get drawn off track and the odd few want to go "Hollywood" and blurt on about how it's the way forward etc etc.

We are all window cleaners. That's what we do. Nothing more, it's not as skilled and technical as some pretend it is. How long does it take to train a windy so that he can work most jobs alone? Not a 3 year course is it?

There’s a huge difference in being an employed window cleaner & a self employed window cleaner.

Most on here say that it could take 3 to 5 years to have a decent window cleaning round, then start earning a decent profit and benefit from all your hard work and have real success. (That’s only if you are able to do this, not everybody can.)

All this takes longer than training for other trades.

If some window cleaners are able to earn £40k plus and you can’t, then maybe you should go and train to be a plumber, electrician or similar it would be a lot quicker for you.

What's that rubbish got to do with this topic?

Cost of some of the equipment! It’s also a response to cozy post if you bothered to read it.

The only response here is you, as usual, letting us all know how very clever & hugely sucsessfull you are. You are the type the original post refferes to.
Why the heck would he want to go plumbing etc? just because he's trad? you can't be serious? Do you honestly think a trad window cleaner can't earn 40k?

[cozy]

We are all window cleaners. That's what we do. Nothing more, it's not as skilled and technical as some pretend it is. How long does it take to train a windy so that he can work most jobs alone? Not a 3 year course is it?

You are right we are all window cleaners in some form or other and that has not changed for decades and decades. Whichever method you use there is skill involved. WFP is more technical than Trad, but still is not rocket science. What has changed (in the UK as I appreciate you are in Germany) is that window cleaning is not the "odd job" to make up your beer money type of work anymore. It is not hidden away anymore and is classed as a professional business.
Window Cleaning businesses whether they employ other or not, quite rightly should have to follow rules and regs and HSE matters. It is not a case of which method is better, but is a case of which method is safer, which conforms to regs etc etc. Accidents will happen, they do in every form of life, but this is no reason to take unfounded risks because "ah that's life" . I take it that you are Trad and that is fine if that suits you and I have no idea about the regs in Germany so cant comment on them. But just think on, If you were to come off your ladders and injure yourself so badly that you can't work for 6 months and it had been possible to do that job another safer way which allows you to carry on working, you may well think twice before climbing the rungs the next time
We operate both WFP and Trad methods. Trad is now for insides only and a few and I mean a few where wfp is not suited. When we carry out trad methods from a ladder we work as safely as possible, there is no compromise.

That's a good point Helen, but there we go again, what if I fall......

The thing is, everyone knows it's safer to work WFP but there are pros and cons. The point is exactly what just happend, Ewan proves the point I am trying to make, now we should be earning 40k and if we aren't WFP then it's because we haven't got the money blah blah blah.

You see what I mean? That's where the snobbery starts with rubbish like that.

[macmac]

What are you stupid and a failure?

I said window cleaner, didn’t mention whether you decide to use traditional, wfp methods or both.

Just because some one takes up window cleaning doesn’t automatically means they are going to be successful at it, although I’m sure all will be able to clean windows, (because it’s not rocket science.)

So where is your relevence to the original post in all this? At what point did cozy ask about building a sucsessful business or even how long it would take? He made a point about training a window cleaner NOT building him a business. It may take someone 3 years to become a plumber etc. but that alone won't earn him a penny now will it? 3 years later he has to start building his business as a plumber. So, I can't see how you would think this could in any way shape or form be a quicker road to sucsess than window cleaning?

What is your point here apart from telling us (again) & (again) that not everyone can make it big?

Cozy makes the point of threads getting hijacked & (again) this is what you do in almost every case. Do you know of nothing else but business strategy? as you seem to be able to turn any topic into it!

As for me being stupid?

[tomy jackson]

wot hapened when thay went from the old wash leater it wos same not every body changed over to the new fangeld sqegy did they  and custy sade you carnt wash windows with that bit of ruber youl leve em all streky with that ?/

[Rob.Hall]

I would like to see the annual running costs for an average sized round on wfp.

The same for trad because I never had the overheads when working this way.

Scrims, rubbers and solution. A new ladder when needed.

We all harp on about speed and money urnt etc on wfp, but does that get wiped out with the running costs for gear etc.

Just a thought.

A mate of mine earns 35k consistently on trad and has hardly any of the running costs I have.

[Window Washers]

wfp is safer we all know that,
Some dont use it some have tried and don't like it, what ever method is used: just be a safe guys and ladies (have to include Helen)!!.

over 95% of my work is wfp and I still do the odd trad job, was trad for years before wfp and did ok.

I don't want every window cleaner to go wfp, so to all you trad only cleaners  
I don't do snobbery, I don't think I could be one even if I tried.

is wfp safer yes, is trad more dangerous yes.
Does it affect my business if others are trad no.

Every window cleaner treats his/hers business in a different way and that is their business!!!!!!


Nice weather today  

Ian

Cozy are you trad only or both ?

[macmac]

Try reading his post properly.  :

No, just for once, why don't you see if you can indeed give the answer to the post.

[Helen]

wfp is safer we all know that,
Some dont use it some have tried and don't like it, what ever method is used: just be a safe guys and ladies (have to include Helen)!!.
Fanx  

over 95% of my work is wfp and I still do the odd trad job, was trad for years before wfp and did ok.

Likewise

I don't want every window cleaner to go wfp, so to all you trad only cleaners  
Agree

I don't do snobbery, I don't think I could be one even if I tried.

We earn what we want to earn, we don't say how much that is our business no-ones elses

is wfp safer yes, is trad more dangerous yes.
Does it affect my business if others are trad no.

Agree

Every window cleaner treats his/hers business in a different way and that is their business!!!!!!
That's how it should be


Nice weather today  

Same here, typical indoors carpet cleaning today

Ian

Cozy are you trad only or both ?

[macmac]

wfp is safer we all know that,
Some dont use it some have tried and don't like it, what ever method is used: just be a safe guys and ladies (have to include Helen)!!.

over 95% of my work is wfp and I still do the odd trad job, was trad for years before wfp and did ok.

I don't want every window cleaner to go wfp, so to all you trad only cleaners  
I don't do snobbery, I don't think I could be one even if I tried.

is wfp safer yes, is trad more dangerous yes.
Does it affect my business if others are trad no.

Every window cleaner treats his/hers business in a different way and that is their business!!!!!!


Nice weather today  

Ian

Cozy are you trad only or both ?

Nice post, you old diplomat.

[cozy]

Hi WW, I'm trad mate but looking to go WFP on my Brit custies( about half my business),

I'm not trying to wind up the WFP people, I just get upset about some snobbery that tends to get dumped on here by well known people, if you know what I mean. Any new guys or people who read threads but don't post are put off giving worthwhile answers or comments by snobbish jibes against trad WC's.

I wish Dave had not split the original post, I can see it all falling on me now. I saw the original post being sidetracked and gowing down the wrong way.

Helen knows what I mean I think.

Tommy Jackson usually posts good answers but I think even he has misunderstood what I meant.

P.S. I'm getting tennis elbow typing all this. Can't even clean trad then

[Window Washers]

1000's of post are read  on here for many reasons they do not post themselves, snobbery as you say, spelling is another, never puts tomy off and fair play to him, I am a little poor at grammer and spelling (getting better though).

I have thick skin to many years trad with top off 

the only thing that annoys me is when someone comments about others inabilty to spell or use the correct grammer, I class it as snobbery and bulling unless they are trying to help .

But apart from that I don't take it personally, it is good to read others comments something can be learnt from it.


No Idea what the point of this post was but hay ho and off for dinner I go

Ian
Helen your welcome