[sean.w.c.s]

.... about use of ladders?

I had a call from a customer last week. she said a window cleaner had called at her door to tell her ladders were illegal, and that window cleaners using this method could no longer clean her windows.

Now i have no problem with canvessers - we've had loads round here recently (including travellors/dolies doing big detached for £3), its par for the course.

I cleaned the house today and she passed on the guys card to me and it has FWC logo all over it   

Most of my work is wfp but this house has rubbish wood painted windows. its easy access etc so i do it by hand. i gave her the option to pole it but she's happy me doing it by hand. what concerned her was that this guy could do serious damage to the window cleaners round here. her husband runs a national food delivery business and they are always losing business to competitors saying "they've gone out of business etc".

80 % of the local wc are trad and i think its bad for a FWC member to be bad mouthing trad wc. is this their normal policy?

not only that but he asked her how much i charge and promptly knocked £4 off it. (I bought the work off a lad and havent put the price up for 2yr so its not overpriced or anything).

is this standard practice for FWC because all the local trad guys are losing work now.

[Moderator David@stives]

http://www.hse.gov.uk/myth/april.htm

[martinsadie]

I always use that term illegal use, when necessary did two quotes this week and used that word.

why do you even need to mention it 

[martinsadie]

why dont you say you use a brush on a stick instead of ladders why use the word illeagle

[kenaltobelli]

check out his name with the fed see if he is legit might be just using there logo
illegaly. he should have a members no too

[martinsadie]

I say I use both methods to clean, but I work with in the rules.

where did you get the rule book from

[Sapphire Window Cleaning]

I just tell my customers the truth, that it is only illegal to use unsecured ladders as a temporary workplace over the height of 6m. And that if there is a safer alternative then that must be used, so there for I use the WFP on windows above the ground floor.
its one thing to tell them its illegal, but most people have the internet and can find out for themselves, and when they see that ladders are not illegal it makes you look unprofessional.



Matt

[AuRavelling79]

Many window cleaners are not the most ... err ..... articulate.

If such a cleaner is on a doorstep, a bit nervous, with an impatient householder they may say "ladders are banned" whereas what I say is:

"If your window cleaner falls to his death and leaves his children without a breadwinner just because you are a luddite silly old woman who doesn't want water dripping down her walls making her grass wet then that will be on your conscience and if that doesn't bother you madam then perhaps your being sued for allowing stan the man and all his lord of the rungs cronies on your property to nick your garden gnomes like the thieves they are and your insurance company backing off will make you realise that my crappy bog-brush on a stick isn't so bad after all.... (stop to breathe) ... so when shall I start, hmmmmm?"

Works every time ... 

[Helen]

Why don't you stop using the word iilegal when it can be misleading? "Ladders can only be used as a last resort Mr/Mrs xxx, therefore to work within the guidlines set down in our industry we use......." There easy! No misleading terms

[Nathanael Jones]

Ladder use is not illegal,.. true.

Ladders use in the real world by the majority (not everyone mind) of window cleaners IS ILLEGAL, because it's carried out without the proper safeguards and when other safer methods are available.

It's a huge generalisation,... but the guys here spouting "ladders AREN'T illegal" every 5 minutes are probably breaking the law every day they use them! With the exception of a very small majority here who have received real health & safety training (and actually put it into practice), I'd say non-compliance with ladder law in its strictest sense is near 100% in our industry!

And besides,.. its not an issue of law really, its one of staying alive and healthy, being able to look after your family and not taking unnecessary risks. WFP mighn't be everyone's tool of choice but I still urge even the most devoted trad cleaners to get a cheapo backpack setup, even if its only used for those awkward & dodgy windows. It could save your life.

[Sapphire Window Cleaning]

Nate since getting my system a few weeks ago I only use ladders for gutter clearing, this is because I do not have a safer alternatitive e.i. guttervac, I am looking into getting one though.
ALL my window cleaning customers have a choice either WFP or find someone else!
I havent had any of them cancel on me yet, (sitting with crossed fingers) lol




Matt

[Nathanael Jones]

Thats the way I did it Matt,.. only lost one and to be honest she was a fussy old bag who was due to be ditched anyway! The first couple of months can be tough, but its worth it in the end!

[GWCS]

a lot of my customers prefer the wfp than the trad method for its additional benefits. So i never had any problems converting.

However the H&S rulings are very OPEN to interpretation - ladders are not simply straight banned, otherwise you would not be able to buy them - and until they are totally banned there will ALWAYs be these type of stories being banded about.

Do you not think that this FWC member window cleaner is just trying to scare customers into using his services? Rather cunning, but it does work, but also scares people away from using you too.

[kris martin]

I wish ladders were banned...   

i have thought ever since i went wfp and before that that ladders should only be used as a last resort, i have just got back from my daughters dancing exams and low and behold i got speaking to a chap sat next to me who wait for it....       is a helath and safety inspector/consultant, i thought this is the perfect opurtunity to find out if ladder use as a last resort is true, well he told me that this is a load of crap and wc are well and truely within their rights to climb ladders as long as they are not in the same place for longer than  30 minutes, i made him be clear that this was per window and not for the job all day.   He told me this rumour has been around for a while and it is not true but WPF is a prefered method but not compulsary...   i asked him about insurances paying out if i fell and he said well if its an accident they will pay out...   

anyhow i wish ladders were banned and i am so glad i thought they were banned because now i really enjoy going to work again (for the last year), i got told off one of my customers about 10 months ago who works for health and safety exactly the same thing (to the word) but decided to turn a blind eye to what he was telling me.


upside... this guy who i met today knows of  a big job he wants me  to quote   in rochdale   ,

i know everybody has different views on this and believe different things but i have been told off two different H&S people  the same thing, so these are my views.

kris

[tomy jackson]

how many have ther ladder taged wich is lor , for every ladder move it shud be risk asesed ??/

[martinsadie]

I say I use both methods to clean, but I work with in the rules.

where did you get the rule book from

What rules are you working to Stan?

none i do what needs to be done safeley