[R-CLEAN]

i was reading a topic on here the other day about different stains and ph's etc.

it was going on about how if you don't know what a stain is just to test the ph so u know wether to use a alkali spotter or a acidic spotter on it but i was wondering what is the purpose of making it neutral, does it then make it easier to remove or something.

thanks ralph

[Karl Wildey]

Who said make it neutral? You can not make it neutral if you do not know what it is, so I think you have read the post wrong.
Stain removal is a skill, but a very simple one to learn, but you wil always be learning. Do a stain and spot course, you will learn so much, it will really make a difference to your cc skills.

PH scale 1 -14. acid is one, alkaline is 14. all stains fall in this 1-14 ph scale, except solvent type stains, tar,oil etc. lesson one over, easy wasn't it.

next teacher

[John Kelly]

Ralph the idea of finding out the ph is to guide you into using the right product. Note it says only on stains you don't know. Most stains it is obvious what has caused them.
Generally stains caused by anything from a plant, coffee, tea, wine etc are acidic. These will remove easier with an acidic side product rather than an alkali.

[markpowell]

1. Get a peice of kitchen towel and see if you get a transfer, if you do its oil based so use a solvent spotter, if no transfer then its water based.
2. if waterbased, get some ph paper, dampen the stain and press ph paper down with some tweezers, if its showing Alkali then use an acidic spotter and vice versa.
3. Always use cold water to rinse out the spotter because some stains can be set permanent with heat.
Mark

[Doug Holloway]

Hi Guys

The last two comments show the confusion surrounding stain removal, John recommends acid on acid and Mark alkali on acid.

Both are sometimes right and it is important to appeciate what you are trying to, i.e remove the stain or change it's colour to colourless thereby appearing to remove the stain.

PH is a measure of hydrogen ion concentration i.e how ionised a water based solution is The scale runs from 0 - 14, where 0 is highly acidic and 14 highly alkali.

Hydrocarbon solvents such as white spirit are not ionised and do not have a pH.

I believe it is more important to understand what you are trying to achieve with any particular chemical, so that you can guage whether it is working or should you try another approach.

PH is a part of stain removal but not a magic key.

There are lots of 'rules' which are often repeated such as 'oxidising on organic' but like most things in life the more you look into it, the more complicated it becomes.

If I ever get time I would like to put together a structured stain removal course, split into say 3 parts, where the chemistry behind, is explained in simple terms and the CC's understanding of what is happening is increased.

Cheers

Doug

[R-CLEAN]

cheers, yeah it doesn't mention the neutral bit i just assumed thats why you use a acidic spotter on a alkali stain and vice versa to try and balance it out ie neutral.

talking of stain and spot courses does anyone know of a good one and even more so one in the northeast.

cheers ralph

[markpowell]

Doug,
Wouldnt you use a high Ph spotter to remove the Tea, Coffee wine etc, then the acidic spotter to deal with the Tannin Mark left. Stain pro for eg is ph 10 ish?
Seems a little confusing sometimes!
Mark

[Karl Wildey]

mark,
don't encourage Doug, he loves his chemistry set, we will never see an end to this subject now.