[Dean Taberner]

Is he the nantwich town manager now?

[Dean Taberner]

http://www.clarets-mad.co.uk/news/loadfeat.asp?cid=ED35&id=340609

[craig b]

would it not be better to take a young lad on at 17...min wage £3.65 or so..
this way you could be more competive with your rates...to help you grow your business

[Dean Taberner]

would it not be better to take a young lad on at 17...min wage £3.65 or so..
this way you could be more competive with your rates...to help you grow your business

True mate but they then find the booze and let you down,

Its hard work,

Dean

[andyatkinson]

ive always taken people on self employed,  £7.50 an hour if they do downs and i do ups, £8.00 an hour if they do ups as well or instead of me, now ive just switched to wfp i intend to still pay ladder rate as i think its still not easy.

[andyatkinson]

yes, ive never had more trouble than the young uns, discover booze and ladies, late etc, no work ethic yet. got a crackin guy at mo 40 hrs aweek really helpfull never late, waitin outside my house in morn , butties with him, you dont get that from the young ones, (generally)
i also do pay him for his full 40 hours regardless of weather and not working etc, i find stuff for him to do. when you finally find a good worker you cant mess em around with a days work a days pay scenario, i find anyway.

[ronnie paton]

what about vat if your reg and then van ins, employee ins employee NI, petrol, vehicle cost, holidays, stationary, uniform ,new equipment ect ect

You wont be left with 60% and it wont be for doing nothing.

Do you employee?

[bad trippy]

what about vat if your reg and then van ins, employee ins employee NI, petrol, vehicle cost, holidays, stationary, uniform ,new equipment ect ect

You wont be left with 60% and it wont be for doing nothing.

Do you employee?

Ronnie when i had a full round of work over 10 yrs ago now, bearing in mind ive been in the building trade for those ten yrs and have only gone back into w/c in the last month, i had fellas on self employed terms, i tried out a hourly rate, back then it was £4 per hour, and then tried 40%, i found the percentage worked out far better for all concerned and even gave them the choice of percentage or hourly, they all choosed percentage

[andyatkinson]

what would happen if you had them on say 40% and say bad weather for example? no pay? im happy with that but more happy now im keeping someone in a job and there happy with a regular fixed income.. or would you pay them a basic rainy day amount or somethin or just encourage them to go nuts on the dry days and work longer?

[ronnie paton]

you cant have them on self employed un less they use there own vehicle own equipment and have there own work

[andyatkinson]

own vehicle fine and does do own work as well

[seandyer2003]

surely about 15000 a year is reasonable for a good window cleaner, 300 per week....  it is only window cleaning they obviously dont expect to be on 30 k a year!! not a slate to wc employees/employers but its the truth. look at any wc job advertised most arent far off min wage!

so long as they do what you expect.. the minimum i would expect from an employee in his own van wfp wouldnt be much less than 1k a week, otherwise why bother with the expense!

i dont employ at the moment have done and struggled, if and when i go for it again i would put them on min wage of 200 pw, and extra 100 for doing work, being on time every day etc


i would like employers to let on how they figure it out though - what profit margin thy get, the costs, what turnover a lad brings, is it better on % or hourly??

[fenman]

I am a carpet cleaner not a window cleaner but the same principles apply.
You would find it very difficult to persuade the tax man that your person is self employed.
If they drive your van, use your equipment and work under your terms and conditions then they are considered an employee regardless of how you pay them and if caught you would be liable for all the back tax and employer nat. insurance.
The only way someone would be classed as self employed is if they provide the van, all the equipment , all the chemicals , are responsible for rectifying any problems with the work,  do not work exclusively for you and invoice you for the work they carry out.
In practice this means you can only sub contract work to a bona fide window cleaner who has their own rounds or directly employ them.

[Robin Ray]

I have 1 guy at the moment working self employed. I was worried if he should be paye or not so I asked my accountant, they told me as long as I am not his sole source of income he can be classed as a sub contractor. As he occasionaly does work for other people this has worked out fine. If however he only worked for me I supose I should take him on.

I pay £80 a day basic as long as we reach minimum target. If we do less he earns less, if we do nothing he earns nothing, if we earn more he gets a bit more. Its best to be fair other wise you will end up with either no employee or a monkey. 

[Lee Pryor]

dont pay an hourly rate, give them a minimum wage basic and the rest is a percentage bonus based on what they actualy turn over each day.

[ronnie paton]

if you provide them with the majority of there work ie 3  days then he is classed has an employee

[seandyer2003]

I know, how does everyone get away with self employed lads, who only work for them !!


There is a questionnaire on hmrc.gov.uk that asks "is an employee self employed, or employed"

Usually if you are asking the question in the first place - they are employed, or should be!! In other words the govt wants Ni contributions out of you as well as their tax!!! It asks things like - do they have the right of substitution ie to replace labourer if they cant be present, do they have control over the hours they work, methods used, price charged etc etc in which case they are self employed but also the amount of work they do for you goes towards their actual employment status...

Another way round is to pay them on a commision only contract in which case you could seperate yourself from them easily.. but they would have to be set up with their own equipment as a sole trader filing their own tax return etc

Other way round is they have their own van and rounds, and sub, or they work for a few different lads... bit of a gray area really as it happens alot in practice, and is no doubt helped along by clever accounting, but id always think "what if they get wise to it" id hate to have to back pay NI!! Or be fined!

[gerard mcmanus]

seandyer2003 I cant really give you the answers you are looking for, although my partner is an acountant and I am looking to employ before the year is out and she suggest taking them on paye, give them holidays etc and not to go down the route of suby workers.

The deciding point for me, was what is they upship and try and take my custies I have biult up for them. Where as if they are employeed by you, the line isn't quite as thin as with suby workers.

[seandyer2003]

I think i would do paye personally but with a commision based scheme, ie pay them base rate, sun or snow of lets say £200 or minimum wage is what £5.65 x 35 = 197.75 so not much difference!

Then set them a reasonable target and bump there wage up another £100 for getting there , is my thoughts on it ! Then hols etc can be paid at an average of there last 4-8 weeks ie if they arent hitting there target they only get base rate for hols!

But i wouldnt do commision only as they would be tempted to work sloppy and be unhappy when there is no work.... If you employ you do have to make sure they can live especially they have a family and bills to pay...
If i found the right guy when i eventually employ again i would keep sticking his wage up if he was really "cleaning up" ie earning way more than i set, maybe that is the kind of guy to put on a good percentage... but they are few and far beween eh

[david willis]

you cant have them on self employed un less they use there own vehicle own equipment and have there own work

Also correct me if i am wrong but if you are self employed it is illegal for you to only work for one person?