[SteveAllan]

Reflection - sorry about that, i retract that part, not normally arsy

[gerard mcmanus]

I dont really think there will ever be no jobs, less yes, few and far between yes, but not none.

[reflection]

no problem steve as i say fair play to you who really want to make a go at it

[gerard mcmanus]

why would you want to help out potential compitition to start up their business i dont under stand that its business after all and the less window cleaners there is the better it should be for you

Because I was once in there shoes starting out and my chirldren may be in years to come, its called humanity. Also your entire thread is about newbies not charging correctly so wouldnt helping them give advice and show them be the best way of stopping newbies charging too low. Not hanging them out to dry.

[reflection]

i think il have to disagree on that one any compitition is bad compitition your in business to make money not friends and its my kids im thinking of when i say that i would love to be able to build up a great business that when the kids grow up they can help me run etc and eventually own themselves.

sounds like im a real git reading that im not really just want to do well for my family

[Klean07]

I too have noticed a few more wcs round here lately but as long as they don't poach my custies then let them carry on. After all its free enterprise. If you look in Yellow pages you'll always see pages and pages of plumbers and electricians who all have to make their living. The trick is to always try and keep ahead of the competition.

[trevor perry]

when ever we want a job doing we look for a cheap price we dont always go for the cheapest but decide on a number of issues, our customers are exactly the same if we are providing a good reliable service and they know we are trustworthy then for the sake of saving a pound a month they will probably stay with what they already have.
 if someone comes and halfs our price then probably the customer will change if the new window cleaner cant make it pay at this they will soon stop and the customer will return, if the window cleaner can make it pay then tough luck you must of been charging too much in the first place and you need to look at how your running your business.
 its called survival learn to deal with it
 

[Nathanael Jones]

I have nothing against newbies,... its the cowboys that are the problem.

The summer "beer money brigade" type, who have been an annoyance in the past, but who are multiplying rapidly in the current economic climate.

I think its actually a dangerous attitude that is brewing in the industry at the moment. We're going from a very helpful community to a bunch of guys who won't give advice or help to anyone new. With most of the new guys working off ladders, this lack of advice might see more injuries & deaths in the industry in the coming months.
Weed out the cowboys,.. and continue to help the genuine newbies,.. their lives could be saved by your 20 minutes and a quick WFP demo,...

Perhaps licensing outside of Scotland isn't such a bad idea after all???

[weetot]

Easy tigers.....Easy!

[pjulk]

I like newbies as a lot don't last long and a lot do a rubbish job and when they go we get to pick up all there work at a good price.

When a customer gets a good window cleaner they tend to stick with them.

[sgibsoncleaning]

ressession hits and all of a sudden theres new window cleaners popping up every where they make me so angry i know wot your all gonna say as long as im doing my work right i shouldn need to worry but when they are charging such stuppid prices the customers cant resist and i understand that because every one is trying to save money at the minute anyway they come into the estate canvis charge stupid prices get ten or so of your houses do them for a few months then the customer realises how bad they are and ask to come back on to our list im really starting to lose the head with these cowboys

born a window cleaner where you?
never made any mistakes in pricing.
some people on here get on my goat with their pious attitudes and cynical replies to new people asking questions.

[gerard mcmanus]

i think il have to disagree on that one any compitition is bad compitition your in business to make money not friends and its my kids im thinking of when i say that i would love to be able to build up a great business that when the kids grow up they can help me run etc and eventually own themselves.

sounds like im a real git reading that im not really just want to do well for my family

Reflection, I dont think your sound like a git, and your point is completely correct, the less compition the better to a point. More to go round the few of course means you will find business easy but my point is rather different. You cant change how many people there are in your business legitimately without breaking the law. But you can set a high standard for others to follow. You asked why would I help a newbie...

Well it would be a bit big headed to think that they would fail if I didn't and it isn't quite incurraging people the start window cleaning only helping the ones that are already. So advantages to doing that, well you know the areas they work, they may pass work to you, if they do decide to quit they may offer to sell or give there round to you, if you advise them well they wont go undercutting etc. You go to any industry in the country, taxi drivers, driving instructors, shop managers they are all friendly with and know others that work in there area. THere is good stregic advantage to this even just from an informative point, I guess I am saying keep your emimies close, but without the malous intent.

[simp]

I've been going 2 years now and am doing quite well. Certainly speaking from experience, I thought picking up good customers would be easy. How wrong I was! Anybody starting out will soon realise this. I think it will make or break them. They hear all the success stories but don't realise the serious hard graft and effort that goes in to building up a round. Any custys I lose because of cheaper quotes will pay more when they come crawling back. So I'm not that worried, just riding the storm! 

[Chameleon]

ressession hits and all of a sudden theres new window cleaners popping up every where

dont know what your problem is,everyone has to start somewhere,people probley thought the same about you when you started 

It's a good thing!
Most will fail and disappear without trace. It's very hard to start up and create enough income to live on
Tony

I dont hate them , it's a free country
Dont worry be happy.
 

Your type p*ss me off, im out there trying to make a go of this after redundancy, have invested in wfp, had some training, do both wfp and trad and quote sensible prices and im not a cowboy thanks and have no intention of jacking in after 2 cleans.
 - adapt and overcome.

I have nothing against newbies,... its the cowboys that are the problem.

The summer "beer money brigade" type, who have been an annoyance in the past, but who are multiplying rapidly in the current economic climate.

The above comment, say a lot about human nature...
MY COMMENT IS THIS...
All window cleaners are only as good as their customer base... if your customers leave you it doesn't matter if you have been cleaning for 20 years or 20 minutes!

[stay white n bright window cleaning service]

Im a newbie started a couple of months ago,people on here complain about newbies starting out and
taking work from them by undercutting.When im out leafleting if i see the house owner i ask ,do you have a window cleaner if the answer is yes i say thanks you move on any post the next house would never say i can do it cheaper. but it also affects us newbies that charge a decent amount .
I had leaflets made stating prices from £6:50 ,but my average price is £8:00,posted an whole village most were 3/4 beds  didnt get any responce ,only to find out a couple of guys charging £5:00.
Had my leaflets changed prices from £5:00 have had more calls but still charge £ 8:00,wouldnt charge less than that . But i do think i will find it hard in the coming months for example my mum had i flyer through the door stating it will cost £5 to clean your windows ,my mums window cleaner charges her £14 because she have a large extention as my dads disabled ,im in it for the long run ,and most of the work ive pick up this month as been first cleans ,but how do we compete with the £5 cleans

[Chameleon]

Unfortunately we either compete or go and work as a shelf filler in the local supermarket!

Diversify!!!  offer other services, cleaning, gutters, jet wash paths, gardening, rubbish removal anything to bring the money in, until your round is up and running!
If the price is right I do all the above!

[GTR Windows]

hate is a very harsh word, I will always believe in a competitive market and welcome anyone to the business, in fact if anyone is starting out in Inverclyde I you can e-mail me and I will give any advice and help I can, spend the day with me if you like to see what it is really like.

id be interested, im not in inverclyde, but not that far away either, looked for a contact addy/pm but you dont appear to have one

[windowswashed]

I'm neutral with newbies. I don't encourage competition, but it's inevitable it will happen.

What I do dislike is dole brigade undercutting and not paying taxman which gives them the advantage.

Established window cleaners should feel comfortable with existing regular customers despite the recession if they've looked after their customers as most of them retain your services because of the trust.

Plenty of low priced work around for the taking but it's getting harder to find decent new work with so many new window cleaners emerging because of current financial situation. However, I'm not stupid, or desperate enough to take on jobs where customers appear dodgy (gut instinct) or jobs that are best suited to trad work not wfp. I'd rather pick and choose the decent ones at sensible prices and forget the NTC's.

[takeone]

As for newbies on here asking daft arsed questions just laugh at it, and help the ones that appear worth helping.

Oh dear.. that makes me feel awful!  I'm totally serious about starting up but i'm gonna have a bundle daft questions to ask 

I've been fitting car windscreens for 5 years and other guys around me in the trade used to laugh at 'newbies' when thay asked why it was important to prime the edge of the windscreen. Does anyone here know? No? pah! I laugh at you not knowing coz I was BORN with windscreen fitting knowledge! ...Actually, thinking back, me and all the others probably asked the same dumb question when we started out.

My point is, if us 'newbies' can't rely on a bit of help from decent folk then what chance does the world have? I'm sure everyone moaning about newbies on here have asked for advice on other things in the trade on this forum. At the end of the day everyone is competition, and your more likely to lose work to an exprienced w/c than a rookie.

I hope I can still get advice and help from some of you guys. I'm serious about making a career for myself although I don't know how anyone can tell which newbies are serious and what ones ain't 

I have a rule that I will stick too. I won't undercut anyone on purpose and I won't sell myself cheap. I feel £10 for a 3/4 bed house in the London area is cheap and expensive enough, if you get what I mean.

I'd certainly rather clean less windows for more money than loads for peanuts.

After all, it's more than beer money for me - it'll be my life!

(now I hope I just haven't made you all my enemies! GULP!

PS - you need to prime a windscreen or the bond won't stick and set. The screen would fly out on impact... 

[rugby]

some people on here get on my goat with their pious attitudes and cynical replies to new people asking questions.

couldnt agree more, im starting to realise its not the forum thats gone downhill lately,its the caliber of window cleaner joining it.

this used to be such a helpfull place for any new starter, as we all were once,   seems a shame