[richywilts]

do you get any sort of certification to go in portfolio if you join the master guild?

[Moderator David@stives]

you do but is there any substance behind it.

This might be highly controversial to say but.

Unless it was govt recognised i wouldnt show, it could do more harm than good.

Runs and ducks for cover

[R W C]

you do but is there any substance behind it.

This might be highly controversial to say but.

Unless it was govt recognised i wouldnt show, it could do more harm than good.

Runs and ducks for cover

Run Dave run

[Nathanael Jones]

All members get a "Membership certificate".

If you're a big outfit then I agree with Dave,.. but for smaller outfits/newbies/1 man bands every bit helps when it comes to conveying a more professional image of your company.

[Moderator David@stives]

Nat

Why dont you go down the route of government recognition, You are half way there.

[vision tech]

dave,
 you say it could do more harm than good,
what harm could come from it?

[Nathanael Jones]

Nat

Why dont you go down the route of government recognition, You are half way there.

It has been mentioned, and won't be ruled out for the future, but at the moment its a case of only taking on what we can handle. When the membership is larger, and the pool of resources & expertise within the membership is ready fro the challenge, then we may well give it a go.

[Moderator David@stives]

Vision Tech

It looks like you are trying to impress with something that has no substance which costs a tenner.

The question you will be asked "what did you have to do to get the cert"

It smacks of trying to pull the wool over the eyes.

Sorry to say that to Nat and the boys as they are nice people, but that is the truth of the matter.

Building owners are not daft, they know the certs to look for and which have substance behind them.

They either have to be bona-fida government recognised trade associations or something that has a quality process attached to have any credibility.

I am going for some L.A and NHS work, they want to know about my accreditations , do you think a guild cert will impress.

It is a bit like rolling up your sleeve and showing off your tattoo, only for them to say

 "Thats not a tatoo it is one of them you lick and rub on with the paper still showing"

[HIGH LEVEL WINDOW CLEANERS (scrimmy)]

you dont like us do you dave

[Nathanael Jones]

That may be true for the big contracts,.. I'd never dispute that, but you're in a place with your business Dave that is at least 5 years in my future, and I think the vast majority of forum members are closer to my end of the scale than yours, for the time being at least!
The calibre of jobs that I aim for do value professionalism and the health and safety side of my presentations, but they don't "rub the tattoo" so to speak.
Despite the fact that being a Guild member doesn't rank much next to being a member of a recognised trade association, It is a step in the right direction and I do believe it makes a real difference, both in the members attitude towards their business, and the way they are perceived by their clients. It has won me jobs, and boosts my confidence a little when going to do a quote!

The Guild requires that its members are insured,... not a huge step, but a first step that many in the industry might not take without encouragement.

[HIGH LEVEL WINDOW CLEANERS (scrimmy)]

i am just watching richard branson on the telly, he wasnt always a multi billionaire by the way, he started off with 1 small shop, and now look at him.....interesting

[seandyer2003]

I think the guild is a good thing, it is an independent organization (for now) which promotes the bettering of window cleaning standards and professionalism among its members, all such organization had to start from the bottom like the fed, they weren't huge govt backed bodies overnight, and none of them would of got anywhere without the quality of their members and the support of them, if all of us thought it was a bit of a laugh it would never get anywhere, but if the guild members treat it seriously then it will be eventually get recognized and treated as such, personally i think the FED is far over priced and i hope the guild reaches a similar status and stays priced fairly, im sure overheads will increase pushing membership up, but not astronomically, so two thumbs up from me

[Nathanael Jones]

Sean,.. did you get my e-mail Re: your membership approval??
I got a failure msg,.. tried sending again?

[Moderator David@stives]

I am not saying i dont like the guild, I just wouldnt present the cert to a potential client.

A few points.

Safecontractor,

It is up to you to tell the client about it, most people i hhave told about it have heard of it, it is govt recognised in the fact if you apply for Chas it will pre qualify you.

The FED

Overpriced, not a chance for £100 or so it is tremendous value, far cheaper than any other trade.

Nat

Very professional answer i am impressed, if you carry on in that manner i believe you will take the Guild forward.

One thing i would say for £12 you will struggle, some day someone is going to want some money for running things and £12 wont go very far at all, its ok now with a few members, how you going to cope with 500 members at £12 a head, it will cost more than that just in administration alone, no one is going to do it for free forever.

[seandyer2003]

Sean,.. did you get my e-mail Re: your membership approval??
I got a failure msg,.. tried sending again?

Did you email me at seandyer2003@yahoo.co.uk??

My website emails are down at the minute!

[Nathanael Jones]

Our aim is to keep the basic fee at £12 per annum for as long as humanly possible.
There have been discussions about introducing "Extras" for members, like personalised ID badges, workwear, featured website listings, marketing materials, logos etc. which would all be optional, but would boost the guild coffers a little, while not costing a penny to those who don't want/need them.

We've also operated a policy of cost minimisation from the outset. All Guild info, news etc is posted on a forum,.. why waste funds printing letters and paying postage?! Even the member certs are provided electronically to save postage costs! We don't have office space or phone lines to pay for,.. and we won't until membership numbers are high enough to warrant & afford it. Its a case of biting off only what we can chew and listening to how the members want to move the Guild forward,... this is what I believe will make the Guild a success in the long term.

If it can be made to work without increasing the member fee, then it will always be preferred.

[seandyer2003]

I am not saying i dont like the guild, I just wouldnt present the cert to a potential client.

A few points.

Safecontractor,

It is up to you to tell the client about it, most people i hhave told about it have heard of it, it is govt recognised in the fact if you apply for Chas it will pre qualify you.

The FED

Overpriced, not a chance for £100 or so it is tremendous value, far cheaper than any other trade.

Nat

Very professional answer i am impressed, if you carry on in that manner i believe you will take the Guild forward.

One thing i would say for £12 you will struggle, some day someone is going to want some money for running things and £12 wont go very far at all, its ok now with a few members, how you going to cope with 500 members at £12 a head, it will cost more than that just in administration alone, no one is going to do it for free forever.

Perhaps the fed is a reasonable price compared to other trade bodies but i dont see why its so essential to have a membership id much rather spend the money elsewhere,

And as i said earlier, the fed may be the top for window cleaning memberships now, but they had to start somewhere, and someone who does the same thing a bit more reasonably may steal their crown
 These are the benefits offered but the fed on there website, nothing substantial that id feel yeah thats really worth my hard earned cash!!!

    *   Representation of a government recognised Trade Association
    * Business investment to an independently run organisation
    * Help in preparing Risk Assessments/Method Statements & Policy Statements
    * Free 24 hour Legal Advice Line
    * Discounted Window Cleaning Equipment
    * 25% discount with Website Wizard
    * Discounted personalised work wear
    * Free quarterly Trade Magazine
    * Corporate advertising in Yellow Pages
    * Use of Logo to highlight professionalism & dedication
    * IOSH accredited Health & Safety Awareness courses- including Ladder & WFP training
    * Annual Trade Shows & Window Cleaning Competition
    * Group Accident financial assistance for members and their employees
    * Personalised identity card and certificate
    * Area membership Lists available on request to Councils/Agencies etc.,
    * NVQ's in Cleaning Building interiors, Windows & facade surfaces
    * Our nominated insurance brokers can assist and help with Liability Insurance
    * Affiliations with the following organisations; British Cleaning Council (BCC), Cleaning and Support Services Association (CSSA), Asset Skills & close working relations with the HSE's Cleaning Industry Liaison Group.

Alot of what  they offer is discounts, ie you are still subject to pay for stuff, nothing is really free that is

Maybe its worth discussing?

[seandyer2003]

Our aim is to keep the basic fee at £12 per annum for as long as humanly possible.
There have been discussions about introducing "Extras" for members, like personalised ID badges, workwear, featured website listings, marketing materials, logos etc. which would all be optional, but would boost the guild coffers a little, while not costing a penny to those who don't want/need them.

We've also operated a policy of cost minimisation from the outset. All Guild info, news etc is posted on a forum,.. why waste funds printing letters and paying postage?! Even the member certs are provided electronically to save postage costs! We don't have office space or phone lines to pay for,.. and we won't until membership numbers are high enough to warrant & afford it. Its a case of biting off only what we can chew and listening to how the members want to move the Guild forward,... this is what I believe will make the Guild a success in the long term.

If it can be made to work without increasing the member fee, then it will always be preferred.

compare this to the above, i know where id rather spend my money and try and promote!!

But i appreciate dave that as an established business tendering for big jobs now, you need the edge on your competitors however possible, but still if everyone promotes the guild for now, you may be at the front of something special to come.....

Im behind it anyway, i think its well thought out, otherwise i wouldnt be behind it, and i wish it every success, and i will do what i can in its interests...

[Nathanael Jones]

Sean,.. did you get my e-mail Re: your membership approval??
I got a failure msg,.. tried sending again?

Did you email me at seandyer2003@yahoo.co.uk??

My website emails are down at the minute!

Yep,.. thats the one I tried!
PM'd you on the other forum,...

[R W C]

I passed the safe contractor first time as all my health and safety was spot on

35 documents from health and safety to manual handling, even noise in the workplace

what did they do for me -- nothing

who knew them--no one

thought i would just add this piece of info

thomas james

Can I ask Thomas and James and Dave Morris a couple of Q's about Safecontractor?

Is the Safe Contractor only for Businesses with employees?

Or would it suit a sole trader?

Is it expensive?

Thanks,

Jay

No sole traders can get it and its about £130 for the 1st year then about £110 each year after that.

Chris