[wizclean]

anyone else know about brodex s crash testing in feb ?

[David Slater]

anyone else know about brodex s crash testing in feb ?

I havent heard of it. Could you give some more details?

Does it go beyond 30mph?

Lets be honest here....our vans travel at speeds beyond 30mph virtually all the time.

30mph is the very bare legal minimum and hardly consitutes a "safe system"...unless you van speed is restricted to 30mph.

30mph testing is a mockery of safety.



If you fall for it...... 

[poleman]

Intresting they are trying to get there on back on ioinc for paying a private investigator to sale them a system and then crash test it

http://ionicsystems.com/video/COMP_V~3.WMV

If true I think it can only be good if brodex do crash test there systems!

[wizclean]

spoke to shaun as im thinking about what is the safest equipment on the market regarding tank safety. He said that they were carrying out testing before cleaning show sometime in feburary. dont know what the variables are but from waht ive read about both parties invovled last time im pretty sure they will want to out do them. more than 30 mph.
i for one am all for crash testing even if its only at thirty because we have a responsibility to keep our work force safe, if it was just me on my own again then i would probably not until i had to. AS my other subject post shows its very difficult to know whats the best course of action when its a very grey area still.

[David Slater]

spoke to shaun as im thinking about what is the safest equipment on the market regarding tank safety. He said that they were carrying out testing before cleaning show sometime in feburary. dont know what the variables are but from waht ive read about both parties invovled last time im pretty sure they will want to out do them. more than 30 mph.
i for one am all for crash testing even if its only at thirty because we have a responsibility to keep our work force safe, if it was just me on my own again then i would probably not until i had to. AS my other subject post shows its very difficult to know whats the best course of action when its a very grey area still.

I'm all for crash testing too. I think its a very sound way to prove your system.

I give Ionics their due, they were the first in the field to do it.

The danger is though, you are not protecting your staff if the vehicle travels above 30mph (which it will, unless it is limited). Staff may be lulled into a false sense of security by the crash test.

Unless it is clearly explained upto what speed the system is safe - and above that speed....well, we dont know because we havent got that information.


...So its probably a good idea not to travel above that speed 

[George P]

all this crash testing is good but in the real world of real legal speeds then the proof is in the pudding, i am not and will not be against any crash testing but if fitted properly by someone who knows what they are doing it should still be safe. the real world is that we have now crash tested 2 of our vans ( unluckily) and both times the tank has done what it should do and stay its place, two written off vans two safe systems, both systems are in use today and refitted properly, i have no problems with my staff going out in these vans as they are as good (in my opinion) as any crash tested vans

george

[Alex Gardiner]

all this crash testing is good but in the real world of real legal speeds then the proof is in the pudding, i am not and will not be against any crash testing but if fitted properly by someone who knows what they are doing it should still be safe. the real world is that we have now crash tested 2 of our vans ( unluckily) and both times the tank has done what it should do and stay its place, two written off vans two safe systems, both systems are in use today and refitted properly, i have no problems with my staff going out in these vans as they are as good (in my opinion) as any crash tested vans

george

Which systems have you got?

[George P]

just to add that both vans was above the 30mph c/test

[Nathanael Jones]

I think crash testing is a brilliant idea,... the faster the better!

And whilst safety is a big concern, I'll also be delighted when the Ionics "scare tactics to drive sales" fiasco is finally put to rest. An alternative system from a well respected supplier with the same safety features and a much smaller price tag,... throw in decent after sales and next time I'm buying I know who I'm calling first!

[Nathanael Jones]

I hate it,.. but i agree with Ewan (I resolve this will never happen again!),... a different vehicle will react differently in a crash.

But in reality, I think that testing 1 commonly used type of van with the largest standard sized system FULL of water is probably the best we can hope for.

30mph and a half full tank was a joke,.. but it sold Ionics a lot of systems.

[David Slater]

I hate it,.. but i agree with Ewan (I resolve this will never happen again!),... a different vehicle will react differently in a crash.

But in reality, I think that testing 1 commonly used type of van with the largest standard sized system FULL of water is probably the best we can hope for.

30mph and a half full tank was a joke,.. but it sold Ionics a lot of systems.

Thats true Nat,

Said it myself many times - we all own different vans, so why are we all buying the same 'standard' systems?

I take it Inocs dont fit their systems in any other model of vehicle than the one shown in the crash test?

[chrisyg]

I hate it,.. but i agree with Ewan (I resolve this will never happen again!),... a different vehicle will react differently in a crash.

But in reality, I think that testing 1 commonly used type of van with the largest standard sized system FULL of water is probably the best we can hope for.

30mph and a half full tank was a joke,.. but it sold Ionics a lot of systems.

Thats true Nat,

Said it myself many times - we all own different vans, so why are we all buying the same 'standard' systems?

I take it Inocs dont fit their systems in any other model of vehicle than the one shown in the crash test?

No they fit to whatever van you want, well at least they did. They just relay on using their "patented" floor bracket thingamajiggies. Yes david you are right, many drivers here do at least 50 down a motorway or a dual carriageway, so a crash at that speed would be far more beneficial. Still if you live and work in london do your really get above 5mph? LOL

Again, many have DIY system that are somehow attached to the chassis if they are lucky (and not tied in with rope like others!!) anyway, whatever happens with a "crash tested or DIY system".. your gonna be praying your ok on a full tank.

[George P]

hi alex

both systems are facelift systems

cheers george

[AuRavelling79]

But a head on crash in a van into a concrete pillar at 50 mph is good night what ever you're driving and with what ever load. The van will just crumple and you will die or be maimed horribly.

It's 40 mph and below - where you would possibly survive - that tank fixings really are important...

[wizclean]

it is all a matter of personal opinion but i now know that as professionals trying to build a good reputation for our work having a poorly fitted tank is a deffinate no. thats not to say a diy tank is no good but i would want it  bolted down rather than just ratchet strapped although both would help. i believe firmly in the motto get the best equipment you can afford, we all have to start some where. i remeber buying my first set of ladders of a fellow window cleaner a putting them on my mazda 121. very professional 

[Nathanael Jones]

I hate it,.. but i agree with Ewan (I resolve this will never happen again!),... a different vehicle will react differently in a crash.

But in reality, I think that testing 1 commonly used type of van with the largest standard sized system FULL of water is probably the best we can hope for.

30mph and a half full tank was a joke,.. but it sold Ionics a lot of systems.

Nathanael Jones, I think you are an excellent window cleaner which is complemented by your business acumen and the standard and value of your service to your customers.

(Do you agree?)   

My unbounded humility forces me to protest,....

[Alex Gardiner]

As we all know, from a suppliers point of view it would be impractical to test every vehicle with each size of system. The best that can practically be done is to demonstrate that your system will survive a crash at a set speed in a certain vehicle.

A better option would be to look at the system itself and see how it could be designed to be inherently stable and easy to safely fix in a wide variety of vehicles. A well designed restraint system should be able to allow for vehicle and system weight variables. Technically if a restraint system has been designed from the ground-up not just as an add on then it should be able to resist forces greater than 30mph.

We all realise the sales advantage that Ionics have given themselves by doing this, but I do think that they have set the starting standard that the rest of us need to work from. In 10 years time (if the economy has not crumbled) I would be surprised if any systems were being sold that were not crash tested in some way.

[David Slater]

As we all know, from a suppliers point of view it would be impractical to test every vehicle with each size of system. The best that can practically be done is to demonstrate that your system will survive a crash at a set speed in a certain vehicle.

A better option would be to look at the system itself and see how it could be designed to be inherently stable and easy to safely fix in a wide variety of vehicles. A well designed restraint system should be able to allow for vehicle and system weight variables. Technically if a restraint system has been designed from the ground-up not just as an add on then it should be able to resist forces greater than 30mph.

We all realise the sales advantage that Ionics have given themselves by doing this, but I do think that they have set the starting standard that the rest of us need to work from. In 10 years time (if the economy has not crumbled) I would be surprised if any systems were being sold that were not crash tested in some way.

I'm not so sure Alex,

If you look at van/truck mounted cherry pickers as an example, they have normally been designed around a specific vehicle with weight/reach considerations around that vehicle.

You would expect a bigger reach/weight from a 7.5 tonne truck mounted cherry picker as apposed to an Iveco Daily based cherry picker.

So, if you're selling a system designed around a Ford Transit, then it should be put in a Ford Transit...and not a Doblo or Ford Connect van.

Obviously, certain vehicles such as the Vivaro/Trafic share the same floorpan so those systems would be acceptable in either vehicle.

 

[Alex Gardiner]

I agree, in an ideal world you would have a system for each type of van.  Ideally you would have the manufacturer of the van design into the floor plan unified fixing points.  In the real world, the best we can hope for is a system that's been designed to adapt.

[ftp]

Surely someone could come up with a skid system and then various mounting kits for different vans? You can buy towbars for every vehicle so why not a mounting kit to fit a universal base? Even if it was the strongest type ratchet straps to hold the base this would give you some adjustability. A car transporter can carry various different vehicles and likewise a flat bed can carry different sized and shaped loads securely.
All vans have a chassis running under the floor so maybe four adjustable mounting points could be drilled through the chassis?