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will01

  • Posts: 256
2 machines together
« on: January 14, 2009, 09:47:46 pm »
Guys:

I currently use a Ninja with 2x3 stage vacs as my main machine.  However i also have a perfectly serviceable prochem commanche (2x2stage) and a steameasy (1x3stage).

I was toying with the idea of joining the Ninja with either one to increase the vac power. To do this I was going to attach two ft long hoses to both the Ninja and commanche or steameasy.

Both hoses would then fix onto a plumbers "Y" piece with the main hose then fixed onto the tail of the Y.

For all you techno minded people.... Would this generate more power or would the Ninja cancel the other less powerful machine out?

I have asked a well respected carpet cleaner this question and he seems to think the Ninja would cancel the other out.  However would just like a 2nd opinion.

Will 




robert meldrum

  • Posts: 1984
Re: 2 machines together
« Reply #1 on: January 14, 2009, 10:12:42 pm »
This has been done by others, but you need two machines of near enough equal vac power, otherwise the eaker powered machine will over rev and damage the motors. At least that's what I wouild expect to happen.


Paul Wright and Jim Neal have both done this with good results

John Kelly

  • Posts: 4461
Re: 2 machines together
« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2009, 10:15:46 pm »
Will, I have a book with all the technical spec regarding running additional vac motors. If I have time tomorrow I'll scan it and email it over.

will01

  • Posts: 256
Re: 2 machines together
« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2009, 10:18:24 pm »
Thanks for the reply Robert.

I wonder... I have 2 new 3stage vacs in the garage. If i fitted them to the commanche would that then be the near equivilent of a truckmount?

All you truckies don't jump down my throat  ;D



Ps. This question is not just directed at you Robert but everyone

will01

  • Posts: 256
Re: 2 machines together
« Reply #4 on: January 14, 2009, 10:19:13 pm »
thanks John:

Would appreciate that.


John Kelly

  • Posts: 4461
Re: 2 machines together
« Reply #5 on: January 14, 2009, 10:25:35 pm »
Wiill, although using additional vacuum motors may give you enough power to operate a portable from a vehicle it can never match the airflow and lift of a petrol engine running a blower. Try and get yourself along to the sunny day out in April and you'll see lots of different setups in the flesh. Until you get your hands on one it is difficult to appreciate the difference. Thats not to say you can't clean well with portable equipment.

Shaun_Ashmore

  • Posts: 11382
Re: 2 machines together
« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2009, 10:31:32 pm »
It would be better to get a booster box I think they are £600, but they also have to work in the same way series or parallel.

Shaun

Jim_77

Re: 2 machines together
« Reply #7 on: January 15, 2009, 12:49:08 am »
Will,

As mentioned above, I sometimes use two ninjas hooked up together in parallel.

I use two 6ft lengths of vac hose from each machine which connect into a Y junction that I had fabricated for me out of 1.5" aluminium tube (I'm lucky enough to have a cousin who works at a local aluminium fabrication plant)  A single length of vac hose then runs off the front of the Y junction to the wand.

You can still only use one solution line from one machine, as it's impossible to hook up the two pumps together to work in tandem (I can expand on that if you want even more of a science lesson ;) )

This configuration (on paper at least) gives double the airflow of one machine, with the same vacuum lift.  I use it for cleaning faster than normal with one machine, so it's very useful on big commercial jobs and even large domestics.  The reason it's quicker is that you don't really need a proper forwards drying pass on most carpets, so you can chuck the wand forwards quite quickly and get on to your next wet pass without the worry of leaving the carpet too wet.  On big domestics, I can use the setup to give me another advantage - carpets dry in ridiculously quick time!

If you connect two machines together in series, you'd be increasing the vacuum lift but the airflow would remain the same (again, only on paper, there are real world differences).  This means you can use extended hose lengths, such as recently where I had a job on a 2nd floor flat with no lift.  I really didn't fancy dragging a machine up all those stairs, plus there wasn't room to swing an anorexic cat once you got up there.  So I sited 2 machines outside the front door, had a bit of piddling around to do with the electrics, and then dropped 100ft of hose down from the flat out of the landing window to the front machine.

I wouldn't ever use a twin vac machine at more than 50ft, the drop in vac performance at 75ft is shocking.  I do also notice a drop in moisture removal when using the parallel setup at 75ft compared to 50ft, but it's still definitely useable.  2" hose from the Y junction to the wand would no doubt help here, but I only own 1.5" so have never tested that theory.

The bottom line is this.  Pi**ing around hooking up 2 portables is a mug's game :)  I've only been playing with it because I'm a compulsive gadget man, I love messing around with machines and experimenting.

I've had other things to be spending my money on in the last couple of years, but now I've got some other purchases done and recouping money, my next capital expenditure is going on a truckmount setup.  Seriously, it's the only way to go.  Even a small one is better than plugging all those wires in, even if it doesn't give you much advantage in the vacuum department.

Ricky M

  • Posts: 852
Re: 2 machines together
« Reply #8 on: January 15, 2009, 01:21:03 am »
Thats sounds sooo tech head to me  lost me on " Y " connection .

aint the scorpion close to TM on suction tho ?

or as close as from a stand alone machine

Ricky
www.ability1975.co.uk
                          www.carpetcleaninguttoxeter.co.uk  
              NCCA !? but why have non of my clients herd of them ??

robert meldrum

  • Posts: 1984
Re: 2 machines together
« Reply #9 on: January 15, 2009, 08:08:11 am »
I think that's been answered by J K ..............a petrol driven blower ( even the less powerfull ones ) is more powerfull than any portable, but, if you intend using portables, the one you mention is very powerfull and there are others. There's even one with 4 vac's............hate to think what it weighs.

If you're frustrated with the lack of power for some jobs, another option well worth considering, is the Prowler............




clinton

Re: 2 machines together
« Reply #10 on: January 15, 2009, 08:23:26 am »
Think he porties caint go much futher as the drawing of amps is almost at its maximum and the number of powerpoints would  be going up to 3 ???

will01

  • Posts: 256
Re: 2 machines together
« Reply #11 on: January 15, 2009, 12:16:52 pm »
Jim Neal:

Brilliant post mate. Very informative.

robert meldrum

  • Posts: 1984
Re: 2 machines together
« Reply #12 on: January 15, 2009, 12:46:23 pm »
Portables could use bigger blowers, but...............they would be BIG and HEAVY.

Ken Wainwright

  • Posts: 2107
Re: 2 machines together
« Reply #13 on: January 15, 2009, 02:36:24 pm »
Ricky

I run a Scorp from my van and although the vacuum performance is very good, it's not as good as a T/M.  On paper, the airflow appears to be better than an entry level T/M, but the porty doesn't have the lift and vac motors will always have a loss of efficiency (slippage) over a blower.

That doesn't mean to say that a well designed high performance portable can't produce results on par with an entry level T/M, 'cos it can, especially on regular everyday typical carpets. It just needs more work in preparation and takes more time.  If most of your work was in pub/restaurant/leisure with high footfalls and soiling levels, the porty would be so much slower than a T/M that you'd not be competitive on price.

Safe and happy cleaning :)
Ken
Veni, vidi vici, Vaxi
I came, I saw, I conquered, I cleaned up!