[Nathanael Jones]

Where are the pics then.

They're on another forum,... but posting a link may get me in trouble,...

[matt]

this thread is a great read

it seems that David Slater has done the research, knows his onions with risks and H&S

yet people are still doubting him  : :

its amazing really

[David Slater]

"Only Gaslow lockers have a gas and watertight lid which completely seals with a simple handle turn."

If you check it has a drop vent so any leakage will disperse through that vent which can be directed right outside the van, and taken away by the wind, if there is any.

I presume thats safer than just having a few holes drilled in your van floor doing the same job. But at least any spark from a battery wouldn't have much chance of ignition, as any leakage will be outside the van rather than inside to start with.

Chrisy,

Its not a couple of holes drilled in the floor. You need to fit proper floor vents. I have fitted two drop vents.

They look like this - www.shutterlovers.com/image/round%20034.jpg

They are made from plastic (so wont rust) they are easy to install. They keep the wind/rain out of the vehicle by the design and shape. They are white...so if you've got a white van, they are virtually invisible once insatalled. Easy to keep clean. Easy to spot any debris/blockages.

They only cost a pound or two and you can fit them in under 30 minutes.

I fitted them under the boiler and as luck would have it, the step (on the side door) had a plastic foot plate....I took the plastic foot plate off and put them in there - If I sell the van, all I have to do is re-attach the plastic foot plate and you'd never know the vents were there 


NWH,

Did you really hang the heater off the back door?

No wonder that fireman thought YOUR gas set up was dangerous!! 

[chrisyg]

"Only Gaslow lockers have a gas and watertight lid which completely seals with a simple handle turn."

If you check it has a drop vent so any leakage will disperse through that vent which can be directed right outside the van, and taken away by the wind, if there is any.

I presume thats safer than just having a few holes drilled in your van floor doing the same job. But at least any spark from a battery wouldn't have much chance of ignition, as any leakage will be outside the van rather than inside to start with.

Chrisy,

Its not a couple of holes drilled in the floor. You need to fit proper floor vents. I have fitted two drop vents.

They look like this - www.shutterlovers.com/image/round%20034.jpg

They are made from plastic (so wont rust) they are easy to install. They keep the wind/rain out of the vehicle by the design and shape. They are white...so if you've got a white van, they are virtually invisible once insatalled. Easy to keep clean. Easy to spot any debris/blockages.

They only cost a pound or two and you can fit them in under 30 minutes.

I fitted them under the boiler and as luck would have it, the step (on the side door) had a plastic foot plate....I took the plastic foot plate off and put them in there - If I sell the van, all I have to do is re-attach the plastic foot plate and you'd never know the vents were there 


NWH,

Did you really hang the heater off the back door?

No wonder that fireman thought YOUR gas set up was dangerous!! 

Off the back door now that is an issue with the pipes and fixings, and could cause a leakage via compress or fracture of the pipes.

[Anglocom]

David is the flame in the heater isolated? The air vents that cause it to blow out shows its not contained, or is it? Obviously i think the gas box is a great way to go. I'll have to look further into that.

Yes.

If you look at those pictures of my set-up you'll see the heater is separated from the gas bottle by way of a solid stainless steel panel (heater is by side door, gas bottle is in the rear).

If the pilot light goes out, the gas automatically stops flowing to the heater. You will have a tiny amount of gas escaping from the pilot light but you're drop vent and ventilation (no van is air tight!) will remove this tiny build up with ease.

If the pilot light goes out, you have just removed the source of ignition - gas cannot ignite without a the flame - 'Fire Triangle'

If you are isolating the gas supply between each job (turning the gas off at the bottle) and you're doing your Daily Visual Inspections and User Checks you would notice if the gas bottle itself was leaking gas before turning the system on.


These Daily Checks and User Checks apply to ANY system and not just gas systems...but I'm sure we all know that  

 

Hi David

Where can I see the pictures of your setup?

Many thanks

Paul.

[David Slater]

David Slater giving you the benefit of the doubt about you hot set up, “taking your word” that it complies with all aspect of H&S including H&S for employees.

If you did have an incident with your set up, you will have broken regulations and most probably the law. (That also applies to of the shelf systems)

But in your case you will also be asked as to why you have this system instead of one made for window cleaners from a supplier. (Your answer better not be to save some money).

So what are the reasons for having this system over one from a reputable supplier?   

Can you prove your system is just as robust, suitable etc as the ones used by suppliers?

What tests were carried out on your system for the purpose of window cleaning?


These are just a few very basic and simple questions about your equipment. Fact is there are big differences between the types of system; using H&S for your own ends is definitely frowned upon, anyone with common sense will see through you comments instantly if there ever were reason to.

You can always tell them you know your onions!   :

Oh my word Ewan....

I take it you've never come across the terms 'Practicable' and 'Reasonably Practicable'

You REALLY dont understand H&S do you?...in all seriousness Ewan, get some H&S management training.

As some other posters already know, I'll be enrolling on the NEBOSH (Diploma) course this year and presuming I pass, I will have the equvilant of a BA (Bachelor of Arts) in H&S and as its an Honours Degree course....that will get me membership of IOSH at Graduate level.

H&S is my thing...I love it!! Its interesting, stimulating and challenging. 

If you want to go 'head to head' with me on H&S you are more than welcome. As its such a broad spectrum, I think we should narrow it down to specifics.

What would you like to know specifically?

Would you like to know how I'm controlling the hazards?
Would you like to know what measures I've put in place?
Would you like to know how my system has ergonomics built into its design?
Would you like to know my reasonig behind gas as apposed to Diesel from a Health and Welfare at Work standpoint?

"buying a system" is somehow better than designing the sytem yourself?? 
One of the foundations of good H&S is discussion with staff/owners on the best design/user operation of equipment. You seem to have this strange idea that buying a system has somehow absolved you from any responsibility.

Let me set you straight there Ewan - I have major "issues" with most manufacturers of wfp systems - they require the user to climb (or lean) in to the vehicle to reach controls. You do realise if you fell from the vehicle while changing resin or turning the system on (or off) this would breach WAHR....which we seem to quote so often 

Do some research Ewan or get some decent qualifications. Then come back to me and tell me your "bought system" is "safe"

Anglocom,

Not sure I'm allowed to mention other sites. Some members of CIU have been banned for less!! 

NATHANEAL (!!!)     has seen my pics. So has chrisyg..... and quite a few others who belong to another guild of window cleaners 

[Anglocom]

Thanks David

Appreciate your assistance.

Regards

Paul.

[David Slater]

Thanks David

Appreciate your assistance.

Regards

Paul.

You've got it Paul 

Look in the HOT WFP section.

Ewan,

Seriously mate, you're so out of your depth its laughable.

I have made my own system because (as already mentioned) I felt almost all suppliers of WFP systems were overlooking some very real and obvious "issues" - namely, WAHR (we all know that one dont we!!) in the design and fitting of the sytems. There was no Ergonomic design considerations built in for the end user/staff/supervisor/manager/owner. I would have thought most manufacturers of equipment would be aware of these basic Regs (as they seem to quote them so happily to sell their systems).

In my book, this is an unacceptable omission.

I took the decision to improve on their designs to come up with a better solution which would address these issues.

Ewan, all of this means nothing to you....but I've responded in the hope that you'll go away and do some research.

STOP trying to off-load your responsibilties onto a supplier. It doesnt work that way my friend...and the guys that sell the sytems know it 

I'm selling NOTHING. I have found a solution that works for me. It is far better that what is on offer.

Ewan, DONT try and throw in a word such as "law" or "Regulation" without having some underlying knowledge of its application.

May I point you to really good source of information -  www.hse.gov.uk/

 Have a really good look at that site then come back at me with some links  ...if you cant link it, its not worth responding.

 

[Tosh]

David,

Ewan's only been a window cleaner since... what time is it now, so I can work it out?  and knows it all already.

Ignore Ewan, he's our resident troll.

[Nathanael Jones]

I doubt anyone who's seen pics of David's system would knock it,.. it is seriously impressive,... built and installed I might add by his dad who was an aeronautical engineer for 30 years (Correct me if I'm wrong David!), so he has a very good understanding of securing things into fast moving vehicles!

Looks better than many pro system's I've seen!

[David Slater]

I doubt anyone who's seen pics of David's system would knock it,.. it is seriously impressive,... built and installed I might add by his dad who was an aeronautical engineer for 30 years (Correct me if I'm wrong David!), so he has a very good understanding of securing things into fast moving vehicles!

Looks better than many pro system's I've seen!

Thanks Nat 

Yep, my dad was an aerospace engineer...you're right Nat, he's used to bolting things on to stuff that moves a lot quicker than a Vivaro!!!

He has an in depth knowledge of H&S (for his industry)....which makes ours look like a joke!!

He was shocked at the low tolerance levels of certain systems.....!!!

He was quite surprised at some of the information I was coming back with from my course. We sat down and discussed it, and he could see the logic. He adapted some of my original plans to include the latest ideas/equipment (and a lot of input from the other posters!)....cheers guys 

I'm happy with my system. It meets my needs. It complies with all relevant legislation. It beats what is offered for sale by other manufacturers.

Guys - I'm NOT selling anything. I just want to show you that with a little bit of input from like-minded people we can ALL come up with something better....isn't that how DIY WFP started?

TOSH,

The danger is, if I don't respond to Ewan other posters may take his spurious and ill conceived ideas as fact.

How dangerous would that be? 

I need to corner him down and show him to be the ill informed person he is.

[NWH]

When it was looked at by the fireman and gas engineer it wasn`t swinging on the back door,the concept of the thing was what they didn`t agree with.So i thought i`d do the right thing.

[matt]

TOSH,

The danger is, if I don't respond to Ewan other posters may take his spurious and ill conceived ideas as fact.

How dangerous would that be? 

thats what i used to think, thus i would allways reply, BUT he doesnt seem to understand even the simple things, you get to a point that you think " am i really banging my head against the wall "

fair play to you though David, as i said above, you know your stuff and your keeping at it good on you

[ps outthere]

It may or may not be relevant but, I remember a news story about an angry terrorist trying to blow up Glasgow Airport using GAS BOTTLES. He poured petrol all through his vehicle and set fire to the lot, it didn't blow up. I remember the experts saying GAS BOTTLES are designed to vent the gas rather than blow up. They may be wrong.

[NWH]

Have you seen some of the gas explosions on Youtube,some are in vehicles.

[macmac]

David slater
Regarding Ewan- when about to reply to a post by the said prat, sit back, take a deep breath & remember this term- "It's no good knocking if there's no one in"

Hope that helps

Tony

[NWH]

Is there anyone there lol.

[Tosh]

David slater
Regarding Ewan- when about to reply to a post by the said prat, sit back, take a deep breath & remember this term- "It's no good knocking if there's no one in"

Hope that helps

Tony

My Mother always said never to argue with fools!

But I never took her advice. 

[Oakley Windows]

David slater
Regarding Ewan- when about to reply to a post by the said prat, sit back, take a deep breath & remember this term- "It's no good knocking if there's no one in"

Hope that helps

Tony

 

[Waterfed Windows]

Thats why he's Mr Bungalow, theres nothing up top!!