[Mr H]

email sent

Email replied

[Clive McDonald]

I've been thinking about it today, and the more i think about it the more i like it.

To start with i thought you had done a fairish job of a logo and a descriptive term, a hook to hang our new hot systems on.But I didn't think about it too deeply.

I thought the guild crest was good too, and the strategy of a lower price point for belonging to a trade body would have been what i would have argued had i been on the pwc board.

Against that i didn't go a lot on your diy books.

Anyway, coach packaged it in a really engaging way so i am starting to think that you might have something of value.

It's my opinion that when you get input from a few people you can end up with something pretty good. When you ask the question what do i get for my £200 pa membership of trade body and the answer is not a lot, this does not play well against the £15 the guild charges for being a member of a profesional body and to have a marketing package tie in.

I wonder how far you could push the coach without paying him any money. Give him canada, let him have the canadian thermoshine rights and maybe his own guild chapter over there. In return he provides the marketing package.

Just an idea.

[craig b]

discount is ther a coded message in your last post

[Nathanael Jones]

I wonder how far you could push the coach without paying him any money. Give him canada, let him have the canadian thermoshine rights and maybe his own guild chapter over there. In return he provides the marketing package.

Just an idea.

That's something to think on,....
Guild membership is only £12 per annum btw!

[Mr H]

Might be better value but from what I heard at the Coventry show from the Feds so called "expert" they don't know what they are talking about when it come to WFP or answering a straight question with a straight answer....

Regards
Mr H

[chrisyg]

Discount what trade organisation charges £200 for window cleaning?

The FWC are about £100 and no other organisation specifically for window cleaners comes close to the benefits they provide for the money, no matter how much less or more they charge.

For example, BWCA charge about £35 one third of the cost of the FWC but the FWC is many more time better than the BWCA so the FWC is better value.

Dont forget these federations, trade associations whatever you want to label them as, charge per staff member or to a certain amount - so if you have staff you pay more, so it could well be £200..

[craig b]

mr H sent you an email.....

[Mr H]

mr H sent you an email.....

Replied to that one too...

[Neil Williams]

He's on line now at Cleaning P's if you want to carry on the discussion with him there.

[WCE]

I've been thinking about it today, and the more i think about it the more i like it.

To start with i thought you had done a fairish job of a logo and a descriptive term, a hook to hang our new hot systems on.But I didn't think about it too deeply.

I thought the guild crest was good too, and the strategy of a lower price point for belonging to a trade body would have been what i would have argued had i been on the pwc board.

Against that i didn't go a lot on your diy books.

Anyway, coach packaged it in a really engaging way so i am starting to think that you might have something of value.

It's my opinion that when you get input from a few people you can end up with something pretty good. When you ask the question what do i get for my £200 pa membership of trade body and the answer is not a lot, this does not play well against the £15 the guild charges for being a member of a profesional body and to have a marketing package tie in.

I wonder how far you could push the coach without paying him any money. Give him canada, let him have the canadian thermoshine rights and maybe his own guild chapter over there. In return he provides the marketing package.

Just an idea.

Come on discount Join us and see what its all about. The guild is really going places just like I told you month ago so go on take a punt!!! Put your hand in your pocket you won't regret it

[Clive McDonald]

Nathaneal -WCE and whomever else it may concern.

I've been thinking more about the master guild of window cleaners and various other ideas. I don't quite know what your set up is, i seem to remember that it was founded mutually by a group of you, so i am unware of what structure you have to run things such as a board or a panel.

Aside from joining I wouldn't mind being on the ruling board/panel/team dependant upon the opinions of the various concerned people. Very possibly the ideas i would bring would be unwelcome anyway.

My vision would see the guild offer a full on marketing package. Thermoshine for hot users, and Permashine for cold.

It would offer online tuition, training and exams leading to a certificate of competence. The advanced level would involve course work, a diary, and a portfolio (photos) of jobs and how they were approached.

While the cost of guild membership would remain low the various packages would be paid for but set at a reasonable level.

One of the aims of the guild would be to make a profit.

The idea of a publication could be looked at again, limited in scope and online, with a marketing bent.

A website would be required.

I would like to work alongside others as part of a team, maybe nathaneal for the website, wce for the mag, and me and coach for the marketing.

This has huge potential and there are synergies everywhere. I would kick coach's butt into paying the ban/ad fee etc. I'm sure we could all find lots to argue about, but this could work.

Comments please.

[mark dew]

The idea does have some merit. In fact the possible mileage for this could be endless. I bet nat never thought this would take the direction it has in the time it has taken so far.
You make it sound very exciting discount.

[Nathanael Jones]

The Guild is non-profit,.. not that we're against money or anything, but any money left over at the end of the year is put towards a prize fund and given back to the members. Lets be honest, the profit isn't that big anyway, and currently there are 5 of us handling Guild admin duties,... not very much split 5 ways just isn't worth it,.. better to give it back!

Non-profit has been a goal from the very start,.. and although it will be hard to keep it running completely voluntarily as it gets bigger, we really want to try. This is about helping window cleaners, not making money. But all things are subjective,.. if we find that we can help more people by employing someone a day or 2 a month to look after the paperwork etc, then it will be considered, and put to a vote by the members.

All Guild members get a say in how the Guild is run,.. some very good ideas have been put forward by members recently and are being taken on board.
The Guild website (www.mgwc.org) has been running from the start, but as new Guild services etc are added the website will be updated & re-designed. I've also got www.thermoshine.com which I'm still undecided what to do with it yet.

The idea's that have been put forward even this week are huge, the Guild members are pushing it further and faster than I ever imagined,..

[Clive McDonald]

Honest answer. Fair enough, i've probably got too much on my plate anyway.

[WCE]

Discount mate, Why don't you just join and see what it's all about. I think you would be happy as member. We are very democratic! Thing is you'll never really know about the ins & outs unless you join. Go on bite the bullet!!!  

[Nathanael Jones]

Go on Clive,.. you know you want to!!

[Clive McDonald]

I think i will join because i want the thermoshine. I was just putting forward my ideas plainly, as founders you have a perfect right not to let someone like me rock the boat.

Many times i have seen a good organisation ruined by a clever and dominant individual joining (parents at athletic club, new player at footie team) and then taking over to run the show and leave the place in tatters when they lose interest.

I did stress working as part of a team.But fundamental differences such as your not for profit ethos can't be gotten around.As i say i will join but wont try to affect any change. I tend to be very aggresive and robust in my business dealings and would have loved working with coach because i know where some of the missing pieces are, and even yourself on 'my vision of your mag' .

Just seen your post nathan, yes i'm going to join but will stick to my word and not interfere.

[Nathanael Jones]

You've had some very interesting idea's,.. ones that are being discussed at the moment in the hidden "Guild members only" board on another forum,... don't think your contributions aren't appreciated!

[williamx]

I have being giving the reasons that the “coach” might have been banned and if it was right or wrong.
Mike at “Express Cleaning” started this forum for many reasons, but the main one was the hope it would drive more customers to his web site, this was a good and sound marketing practice, even the “coach” will agree with this.
Over the years there have being many suppliers who are members, but they have always given out help and advice first, rather than tout their products, for sale on this site, if anyone is to blame for their products being marketed on this site, it has been ours.
By us praising their products we have driven more customers to their businesses, this mike accepted for quite a few years, but also over the years you have had a supplier who only wants to promote his company and their products, the classic case is when a member who wants to know where to get a pole from, they pop up and give links straight into their shop, they never give advice or help just straight forward sales links.
Is this fair, I don’t think so, how would you like to put your competition down on your web-site or you advertise on one side of a leaflet, while they advertise on the back.
There is no way you would allow this, you still wouldn’t allow them to do this even, if they were to pay you, yet mike is prepared to let them carry on so long as they pay him.
It has been pointed out on other forums that there are still others’, who are getting away with what the “coach” was doing, yet they have not been banned, and censorship is screamed out.
Lets’ look at one these “others”, he is from London and has a full time job which is not cleaning related, yet he is willing to canvass properties for local window cleaners, is he going to make a lot of money from this venture, well I don’t think so, if he does then maybe I will go back to a past career and do the same.
The coach on the other hand, does stand to make a lot of money, for instance if 100 members sign up and that not impossible ,for his monthly magazine, and they have brought the book as well, then he will make £44,300 in the first year, then £37,600 pa or £3133 per month thereafter. Not bad if you can get it.
The “coach” was a bit miffed about being banned, well wouldn’t you be, the potential loss of all this income, but there is a remedy .
The “coach” has claimed that his marketing ideas will make us thousands of ££££, well why does he not use some of these methods, pay mike to advertise, and start to make himself many  thousands of Canadian $$$$.
He could have his own link, where he would have control over, very handy for deleting negative posts, and he could explode with marketing ideas and methods on it.
So come on “coach” put you $$$$ were your mouth is and start to advertise on this site, maybe you could turn me into a believer.
You could also get this advertising money back by selling  your services as being better than before and start charging many more $$$$.

[chrisyg]

think you need to email coach, he cant read your reply