[ftp]

I do wonder sometimes Glyn, who's side you are on? I took your post as knocking windowcleaners for charging too much and earning more than decorators, gardiners and car washers and for earning more per hour than the customer. You also critisized a company for selling ro units too cheap. Maybe i read it wrong and if i did then i apologise but that's how i interpreted your post and frankly it wound me up.

[www.mrgutters.co.uk]

the side that makes him loads of money!!

bet his gutted when people do diy systems.....lol

im sorry but the prices of window cleaning have nothing to do with price of kit...i set my current 4040 up with tank and poles for 600 and i charge 20.00 minimum and earn when working around 40ph

so its got nothing imho with price of equipment

shawn

[matt]

supplier in price war shocker

[Paul Coleman]

we can all do gardening.... but a lot hire gardeners....

we can all paint rooms, but we hire decorators.

we can clean our own wheelie bins, but we pay to have them cleaned.

we can wash our own cars, but we take them to... and pay a carwash

But none of the above charge or earn the amount window cleaners do.
If any of the above was charging £40 or more an hour then the story would be different.

Glyn,

Maybe I was too cryptic in my post....

If you aim to win and keep customers with this mystical new thing called WFP.....then you're on to a loser.
The internet is wonderful tool for everybody! (including your customers) You cant keep this WFP thing a 'secret' and hope to prosper.

What I'm saying is ADD VALUE to your service - you are insured. You are trained. You are recognised by trade organisations....

What if that customer who was using a WFP and Hozelock pump dropped it on a neighbours car!!!!!

Not a problem for you!...you're fully insured and covered  

What about the H&S aspect of your work (you're trained) and a "competent person" to issue risk assessments  

What about the the hazards associated with with Working at Height?...are they aware?
Are they covered under their 'home policy'


ADD VALUE my friend  

If you dont have the skills/knowledge.........get them pronto!

As Gazza mentioned, we can all do these jobs, but do we 'want to'....do we feel able to meet the challenges of performing these tasks?

Dont treat WFP as some 'big secret' nobody else should know about....rather, develop your skills to 'use' the equipment in a way that is professional and trustworhty with "ADDED VALUE"



Do you see what I'm saying?  



 

This "add value" stuff is true with suppliers too.  I've bought stuff before and had no backup at all if something didn't work as well as I needed it too.  Other times I've bought stuff and been able to get things sorted out quickly if things haven't worked out.  That's an area where Glyn and Omnipole score well as I've needed a swift remedy a few times and been able to drive up there and get it sorted on the day.  A lot of (cheaper?) suppliers can't or won't offer that kind of service.

[Alex Gardiner]

Having looked at these systems they are very good value. However they are very basic compared to units that some other suppliers sell.

The one component that will make a difference to the life of the unit is the actual brand of membranes used. If they are cheap eastern copies then they will have about half the lifespan of the genuine article.

You do get what you pay for in life and these items do make a great cheap starter RO, their anticipated lifespan however is something that time will tell.

Over the years I have gone through three similar units. The first (bought from Glyn 8 years ago) I killed in just 12 months due to no understanding of what maintenance was needed. The second was a well specified version, but was a cheap import and that also only lasted 12 months despite being well maintained (the pump packed up after 3 months, the membranes died after 12 months, the TDS meter stopped working, the auto-flush solenoids both packed up after 10 months and cost nearly as much as the machine to replace). My third one and the one that still powers all of our workers is a good quality 200gpd unit ( we have very high water pressure and low TDS so it produces about 700 litres a day), very simple, but uses quality components. This is well maintained and has lasted for about 5 years now (changed membranes once).

I now know that it is better to buy quality (not necessarily expensive though) as it will cost you less time and hassle. I happen to know that the RO units that Glynn now sells are good quality and well built, they will cost you a little bit more to buy in the first place though.

We do not currently sell retail RO units so I feel I can say this without perceived bias.

[windowwashers]

Makes me wonder how long they can possibly stay in business.
To me its no different to cleaning windows of a 4 bed detached house for £1.50.

Anyone who fancies having a go at window cleaning can now setup for a few hundred quid charge £2 or £3.00   to clean houses or flats and quickly destroy the local regular reliable window cleaners business.

In fact at these prices any householder could buy this system a cheap pole and clean their own windows, conservatory etc. and sack their window cleaners and in a few months they have saved what they would have spent with ther window cleaner.
Dont be suprised if in these times of fear through the credit crunch this happens.

A lot of people get a window cleaner because they dont want to clean there windows, not because of the expensive of buying the equipment, I would think of it this way: pay £10 for a 4 bed house and get someone to do it for you or buy all the stuff for say £250 thats 25 cleans you have to do before it pays for it's self, as a house holder I would not do it, hell I dont clean my windows often I pay to have them done and I have all the equipment lol

[dai]

Tucker, Unger, Brodex and Omnipole are all leading brands; we know this because they tell us so on every opportunity.
Big brands mean big advertisements in trade magazines, shows, etc.
High profile means spending big bucks on advertising; this cost ultimately has to be added to the price of the product, therefore it’s hardly surprising if leading brands are more expensive. A guy selling on Ebay may have very few costs associated with running his business, this is reflected in his prices.
Glyn has to compete in the same market, but he has to cover Omnipoles considerable costs, he’s not trying to rip anyone off.
The movement in a Rolex watch costs just £65 to make, the rewards from being a brand leader is there for all to see, but it costs.

I am a dedicated D.I.Y. man so have no axe to grind.

[David Slater]

we can all do gardening.... but a lot hire gardeners....

we can all paint rooms, but we hire decorators.

we can clean our own wheelie bins, but we pay to have them cleaned.

we can wash our own cars, but we take them to... and pay a carwash

But none of the above charge or earn the amount window cleaners do.
If any of the above was charging £40 or more an hour then the story would be different.

Glyn,

Maybe I was too cryptic in my post....

If you aim to win and keep customers with this mystical new thing called WFP.....then you're on to a loser.
The internet is wonderful tool for everybody! (including your customers) You cant keep this WFP thing a 'secret' and hope to prosper.

What I'm saying is ADD VALUE to your service - you are insured. You are trained. You are recognised by trade organisations....

What if that customer who was using a WFP and Hozelock pump dropped it on a neighbours car!!!!!

Not a problem for you!...you're fully insured and covered  

What about the H&S aspect of your work (you're trained) and a "competent person" to issue risk assessments  

What about the the hazards associated with with Working at Height?...are they aware?
Are they covered under their 'home policy'


ADD VALUE my friend  

If you dont have the skills/knowledge.........get them pronto!

As Gazza mentioned, we can all do these jobs, but do we 'want to'....do we feel able to meet the challenges of performing these tasks?

Dont treat WFP as some 'big secret' nobody else should know about....rather, develop your skills to 'use' the equipment in a way that is professional and trustworhty with "ADDED VALUE"



Do you see what I'm saying?  



 

This "add value" stuff is true with suppliers too.  I've bought stuff before and had no backup at all if something didn't work as well as I needed it too.  Other times I've bought stuff and been able to get things sorted out quickly if things haven't worked out.  That's an area where Glyn and Omnipole score well as I've needed a swift remedy a few times and been able to drive up there and get it sorted on the day.  A lot of (cheaper?) suppliers can't or won't offer that kind of service.

Ooops!!

I didnt realise Glyn was a supplier of equipment.

I thought he was coming at things from the angle of a window cleaner who was upset a 'domestic' customer could buy all the bits and bobs to set up his own unit for a few pounds and we should keep this WFP thing a secret!!!

I think Glyn is aware with posts (such as Harris Pole and L5) we're all thinking about ways to save a few quid.

From a supplier viewpoint - Personally, I like Alex Gardiners approach:

1. You can talk to the man himself.
2. Problems are resolved speedily
3. Easy to ask for advice
4. Cutting edge innovations (SL-2 or Thermobore anyone ?)
5. REAL contact - with a phone number!!!
6. A nice easy website

In my book, thats built-in ADDED VALUE

When suppliers start selling 'Home' devices and 'Commercial' devices aimed at doing away with window cleaners altogether....then I think we need to sit up and ask ourselves who's interest are they looking out for exactly?



...Ionics do a nice line in 'domestic' and 'commercial' systems for those that are interested 

[Paul Coleman]

Tucker, Unger, Brodex and Omnipole are all leading brands; we know this because they tell us so on every opportunity.
Big brands mean big advertisements in trade magazines, shows, etc.
High profile means spending big bucks on advertising; this cost ultimately has to be added to the price of the product, therefore it’s hardly surprising if leading brands are more expensive. A guy selling on Ebay may have very few costs associated with running his business, this is reflected in his prices.
Glyn has to compete in the same market, but he has to cover Omnipoles considerable costs, he’s not trying to rip anyone off.
The movement in a Rolex watch costs just £65 to make, the rewards from being a brand leader is there for all to see, but it costs.

I am a dedicated D.I.Y. man so have no axe to grind.

I suppose it's not so different with the actual cleaning side of things too.  I offer a fairly reliable service, a decent quality of work (occasional glitches excepted), an insurance policy that covers the customer's property being worked on, the ability to clean (almost always) windows that most window cleaners cannot safely access, payment by online banking (if desired), the assurance that as a legitimate, tax paying trader I am not a fly by night etc etc.   Because of that, I charge a lot more than people who have no insurance, fiddle the dole, and haven't invested in certain equipment.  As the former, I expect to turn over more money from a job than the latter and feel totally justified in that.  Same principle as suppliers I reckon.

[Paul Coleman]

we can all do gardening.... but a lot hire gardeners....

we can all paint rooms, but we hire decorators.

we can clean our own wheelie bins, but we pay to have them cleaned.

we can wash our own cars, but we take them to... and pay a carwash

But none of the above charge or earn the amount window cleaners do.
If any of the above was charging £40 or more an hour then the story would be different.

Glyn,

Maybe I was too cryptic in my post....

If you aim to win and keep customers with this mystical new thing called WFP.....then you're on to a loser.
The internet is wonderful tool for everybody! (including your customers) You cant keep this WFP thing a 'secret' and hope to prosper.

What I'm saying is ADD VALUE to your service - you are insured. You are trained. You are recognised by trade organisations....

What if that customer who was using a WFP and Hozelock pump dropped it on a neighbours car!!!!!

Not a problem for you!...you're fully insured and covered  

What about the H&S aspect of your work (you're trained) and a "competent person" to issue risk assessments  

What about the the hazards associated with with Working at Height?...are they aware?
Are they covered under their 'home policy'


ADD VALUE my friend  

If you dont have the skills/knowledge.........get them pronto!

As Gazza mentioned, we can all do these jobs, but do we 'want to'....do we feel able to meet the challenges of performing these tasks?

Dont treat WFP as some 'big secret' nobody else should know about....rather, develop your skills to 'use' the equipment in a way that is professional and trustworhty with "ADDED VALUE"



Do you see what I'm saying?  



 

This "add value" stuff is true with suppliers too.  I've bought stuff before and had no backup at all if something didn't work as well as I needed it too.  Other times I've bought stuff and been able to get things sorted out quickly if things haven't worked out.  That's an area where Glyn and Omnipole score well as I've needed a swift remedy a few times and been able to drive up there and get it sorted on the day.  A lot of (cheaper?) suppliers can't or won't offer that kind of service.

Ooops!!

I didnt realise Glyn was a supplier of equipment.

I thought he was coming at things from the angle of a window cleaner who was upset a 'domestic' customer could buy all the bits and bobs to set up his own unit for a few pounds and we should keep this WFP thing a secret!!!

Ha ha !!.
You blew that didn't you?   

[ftp]

So why shouldn't a small supplier with low overheads be allowed to sell cheaper than the big boys? Got to start somewhere. If he can't then surely you will be going into the realms of price fixing? A subject i don't fully understand. I think Volvo and Ford got done for it but there are many examples of fixed prices in other avenues.

[dai]

So why shouldn't a small supplier with low overheads be allowed to sell cheaper than the big boys? Got to start somewhere. If he can't then surely you will be going into the realms of price fixing? A subject i don't fully understand. I think Volvo and Ford got done for it but there are many examples of fixed prices in other avenues.

I know mate, that's why we tolerate under cutters.

[matt]

So why shouldn't a small supplier with low overheads be allowed to sell cheaper than the big boys? Got to start somewhere. If he can't then surely you will be going into the realms of price fixing? A subject i don't fully understand. I think Volvo and Ford got done for it but there are many examples of fixed prices in other avenues.

virgin atlantic and BA also got done for it recently

a small supplier who rents a 200 quid a month unit will of course have smaller overheads, its like the window cleaners who used to sell equipment to fellow window cleaners

it can only be a good thing for the end user ( us ) long may it continue

we all know the replies that they will come back with, oh but what about the millions we spend on R&D, you will never get new products etc etc

[dai]

millions we spend on R&D, you will never get new products etc etc

Don't forget all the R and  D that goes on on the DIY site.

[www.mrgutters.co.uk]

glyns not been back...lol

[Nathanael Jones]

I just bought one off him,.. very helpful guy to deal with.
At that price, even if the membranes only last 6 months its a bargain!

enquiries@purewaterproducts.co.uk

Alan
Pure Water Products

[Tony Warren]

The system is from America as are the membrains. The membrains are identical to the ones that came with my Roman set up.

A couple of weepy elbows but put right with a little PTFE tape on the threads (just like i had to do a few years ago the the Roman set up)

The quality is good for the job, plastic is plastic and should not de-grade. If an O ring perishes after time then they are peanuts to replace.

The filters are identical to ones i have previously bought so 18 filters for £40 is a steal.

After the third filter the water goes into the membrains at 77PPM and pure water comes out at 2PPM (better than my old Roman system) Pure water flow rate including DI stage is 60 litres per hour.

If you need one look on ebay first as the price is better than the website.

[Nathanael Jones]

you need one look on ebay first as the price is better than the website.

Or e-mail him and you'll get cheaper again!! Got mine for £95 + postage!

[mikecleanz]

I bought my first wfp system off ebay lasted me years (brodex red beastie) just bought my 2nd brodex system.. they come complete and I didnt have to build it myself with all the hastle of leakes and cracks etc cant believe you guys it you are truly professional /commercial you shouldnt even have time to build your own never mind rick your contracts on a diy jobies WOT R U LIKE get serious buy the real thing and get their back up and guarantees the payback is so fast its worth it...