[Roger Koh]

Besides the grease stain done from this 20 years old nubuck, which is the correct answer for reviving its color?

Pick your answer!
A. Hydrating with Fatliquoring.
B. Hydrating, Fatliquoring with Nubuck Transparent Dye.
C. Hydrating, Fatliquoring with Nubuck Opaque Color.

Roger Koh
Leather Doctor® System

[LTT Leathercare]

None of the above as re-fatloquoring leather is not possible.

[carlton care]

Good to see you posting again Roger. I'm aware of the differences of opinion and like to keep an open mind on everything that others do.

I'll have to dig into my computer's history, as I did come across this subject on another board.

Meantime.................I'll take a stab at 3, as I don't think the other two will revive the colour, if, indeed it's been revived, rather than a darker shade applied.

Been looking for some excellent brochures you posted some time ago, but they seem to have evaporated.

Could be the onset of senility, of course, heaven forbid.

robert meldrum

 

[Mike Osbourne]

When Roger refers to 'fatliquoring' is this the name of a product to rehydrate?

[carlton care]

It's part of the processing of hides in the leatherworks. Roger reckons it's necessary, to replace Judy reckons it's not, in fact she reckons it can't be replaced. I've come across another incidence where they were in agreement with Roger, but can't find it !!

From a logical point of view, I feel it might be viable, maybe even necessary in unprotected leathers, or where degreaser has been used.

But, as has been suggested before. What do I know

[Mike Osbourne]

I have a bit of a problem with Roger, he talks in riddles half the time and I don't know what dialect of Canadian he speaks but I have real trouble understanding him, which is a real shame because he obviously has a huge knowledge.

I was just wondering whether this is a classic case of where marketing is confused with technical expertise, in that 'Fatliquoring' is a product that merely re-hydrates and plumps the leather.

Also the sheer plethora of products and complex labelling puts me right off as I'm easily confused, though no doubt it will satisfy the need of many others.

[Shaun_Ashmore]

I'm going for No#1 as it seems to be the most illogical........captain.

Come on Roger don't keep us all in suspenders!!

Shaun

[carlton care]

You are correct Shaun as you might expect from Rog.

I know there's a fair bit of disagreement on fatliquoring, but it's perfectly viable, in some cases, but only at the right time, when working on the leather.

Just adding water simply can not achieve the same end result, after all water and oil don't mix !!!!

[spindle]

oil will mix with water................if you have the correct proteins

[Mike Osbourne]

Is not emulsion an oil mixed with water? Forming a colloid. It's quite some time since I did chemistry.

[Roger Koh]

Judy,
Take a look at Leather Teaser #1.
How do you explain the disappearance of the whiteness in picture #3.

Robert,
Try harder #3 is not the right answer.
Anyway this job is not done by me but by a carpet cleaner like you with his 4th nubuck cleaning attempt since October 10th.
With previous systems that produce mediocre results, this leather-safe system found him inspired and elated with greater confidence to seek out these high end leathers where others fear to touch.

Mike,
Fatliquoring is the last of the last in a tannery wet operation, together with first re-tanning follows with dyeing then fatliquoring.
The objective is to lubricate the internal leather fibrillary structure for flexibility and softness.
It is a process by which the fibrils are lubricated so that after drying they will not stick together and are capable of sliding over one another.
In addition to the softness for flexing, fatliquor contributes greatly to its tensile strength.
Fatliquors are basically an emulsion of water and oils and looks like nature’s milk.
In order to have this emulsion in consistency and not allow oil and water to separate tannery usually fatliquor about 125°F immersed.
When leathers are made into articles of garment, upholstery, bags, carriage, accessories through time especially heat or low humidity or cleaning detergency these fatliquor diminished.
Signs of diminished fatliquor are revealed as coarse breaks, creases or wrinkles and will later crack.
Periodically topping up the fatliquor ease away these fatliquor deprive signs with suppleness and regain strength.
This breakthrough fatliquor5.0™ can be cold spray without heat, and does the same objectives as the original tannery fatliquoring.
Techniques of fatliquoring differ on desired result with fatliquor5.0™.
1. Commonly used after rinse3.0™ pH value 3.0 - As the average pH value of leather is between 3 - 5, acidifying the protein fiber below the iso-electric point of average leather cat-ionized the leather fiber (+ve) for hydrogen bonding with the anionic (-ve) fatliquor5.0™.
2. For dried, stiff or cardboard hardness leathers relaxer3.3™ pH value 3.3 is used to hydrate the leather structure after rinse3.0™ prior to fatliquor5.0™.
This hydrating allows “dipole water movement” within the structure thickness allowing re-distributing the fatliquoring more evenly without patchiness especially light colored leather.
3. For absorbent leathers dye color saturation, fatliquor5.0™ may be used without the need of dyes or color.

Shaun,
I believe you have fatliquor5.0™, try it out!
Are you waiting for the next CCDO to prove your findings?

spindle2k
Welcome to the discussion,
Rather oil and water will mix to a certain degree.
1. French salad dressing is an example of a simplest form of emulsion with split second emulsion (oil and water separates very fast).
2. Fresh milk is a good example of excellent emulsion also called micro-emulsion.
3. Fatliquor5.0™ can be put into freezer, thaw and still be as good as before is another example of a micro-emulsion.
The whites we see in fatliquor5.0™ are actually fats and oils encase by molecular droplets of water.
When these individual droplets penetrate the leather the inner oil anionic (-ve) droplets hydrogen bond with the cationic (+ve) leather fibrils.
And the water breaks free as shown in Leather Teaser #3.
Effective fatliquoring never leaves an oily surface. 


Roger Koh
Leather Doctor® System

[Barry Livingstone]

There is one thing if you are trying to SCARE newbies away from Leather cleaning...after reading that am sure they will say bugger it am ok using M/S     and chemsepc leather cleaner ....lol.....off to 2nd job of the day .....

[carlton care]

Don't quite follow your reasoning James, as the discussion is about leather restoration, nothing to do with carpet cleaning.

One of the best ways of educating yourself is by reading. On a forum like this, you also get input from people with a lot more experience and specialist knowledge than the average operator.

I don't agree with any one person about everything, but I'm prepared to listen to all opinions and either draw my own conclusions or look further into what's being proposed.

Look, Listen, Learn!

Only one job today which I've just got in from.

robert m

[Ricky M]

Rodger just had a bit of read  (as much as my very unscientific mind could take on board) about fatliquoring ....... would I be right in saying that Beef tallow could be used, as it has the same ph 5.0 but the smell would be non to nice ?

Or am I way off
this is some thing that u would use only for restoration purposes or as a regular feed to all Leathers as a normal process of the cleaning practice ?
 
Ricky

[Roger Koh]

Beef tallow can be used for restoration or regular feed only for belting leathers or outdoor leathers and not practical for indoor leathers.

Feed here may refer to stuffing or currying to saturate the leather for high rigid tensile strength or waterproofing purposes.

Beef tallow is a yellowish hard fat that has to be warm up and physical hand-stuff in order to penetrate the leather.

And if it does not smell good, it will more likely result in “fatty spues”.

Quote from Robert: Leather Teaser #1 -
 “Imbibing, saturation, or maybe replacing / replentishing the oils added during the currying process, which gives leather its suppleness, stretchability and stops it drying out, etc.”

Currying is the introduction of a high percentage of grease to lubricate the fibers and so doing give leather its high tensile rigid strength and not for its suppleness or stretchability.

Commonly used for currying is dubbin a mixture of beef tallow with cod oil.

The cod oil penetrates the leather while the tallow generally stays on the surface that imparts a greasy surface.

Both fatliquoring and currying serve leather for its intent different end purpose usage.

Fatliquor is for all indoor leathers where breathability, suppleness, feels and scent is sought after with all sensuality associate with the charm of leathers.

Currying is associated with belting leathers for industrial application where high rigid tensile strength is desired over other aesthetic attributes.

These beef tallow stuff leather belts were designed as fan belts in Army Tank Engines during the extensive desert campaigns during World War II.

Other practical outdoor leather where dubbin is use is for waterproofing leather boots and other personal wear including equestrian leathers.

The leather type and end usages dictate whether they should be Fatliquored or Curried.

We slave for the leather, so that the leather in return slave us!

Roger Koh
Leather Doctor® System

[carlton care]

Good timing, this thread, as, by coincidence I was asked to inspect a suite last night, which turned out to be at least 30years old, had been dried out by applications of " saddle soap" so much so, that on two chair arms the leather had the appearance of shiney paper.

My first thought was, absolutely no chance of recovery, but the " fatliquoring" debate being fresh in my mind, made me think, it could be an opportunity to experiment.

The suite is two tone, at least 30 years old, VERY dehydrated, even the cushions are dry, hard and shiney, with colour rubbed off the arms,

My main concern is, it might fall apart, if I start dealing with it in the normal way, but I then thought, if it had fatliquor applied and covered for maybe 48 hours, it might absorb enough to rehydrate and allow normal restoration.

I'd be interested in your thoughts on this.

The suite is a very " club style" traditional, two tone pigmented, buttoned, queen anne legs and the leather appears to be much thicker than modern suites.

Yes, I know, a picture tells a thousand words, etc, but I'd no idea what I was going to see !

robert m

[Bob Robertson]

 I would say this is what was done   :


Step 1: Use nubuckEraser5™ to remove the buildup soil and exfoliate worn nap (do not overdo as the nap on the surface is finer and coarser as it goes deeper).

Step 2: Use d’Oil4.4™ on all oiled, greased and stains with agitation (deeper than the stain to lubricate and penetrate).

Step 3: Use d’Grease4.9™ spray and feather out from d’Oil4.4™ application to the entire upholstery in this case (complete wet out into the stain) and feather out
accordingly to degree of soiling level. And let both dwell at least 30 minutes. Thereafter extract if possible with help from misting it with d’Grease4.9™.

Step 4: Use clean3.8™ proportionate application more to the stain areas to flood the leather structure to cause a suspension of foreign contamination and feather out accordingly to the entire piece.

Step 5: Use rinse3.0™ to flush out all residues from the leather structure by hand scudding until towel shows clean.

Step 6: Hand scud and extract all excess liquid.

Step 7: Use relaxer3.3™ to hydrate the leather structure further and wrap it up (control evaporation) for 4 hours.

Step 8: Remove wrapping, hand scud further liquid if possible until towel shows clean, otherwise repeat.

Step 9: Use fatliquor5.0™ spray evenly the entire piece avoiding heavy drips and agitate with nubuckBrush2™ to penetrate and even it out further.

Step 10: Cover it up for 4 hours or more.

Step 11: Remove wrapping for natural slow drying to allow time (4 to 8 hrs) for foreign particulates to wick up to the surface.

Step 12: Accelerate drying ideally with dehumidifier or blow dryer to make the surface suspended soil crispy dry for easy erasing.

Step: 13: Inspection time, any unwanted creases can be eliminates at this time with “Hot-Kiss-Plating”.

B: Color Restoration:

 somehow through rinse3.0™ have recharged the protein fiber cationic (+) below the iso-electric point neutral of the leather.
nubuckDye23™ is anionic (-) therefore  again recreating re-dyeing by hydrogen bonding concept as been practice in the modern tannery.
The sequence of steps is as follows:

Step 1: To ensure eliminating of surface tension we require surfactant3.6™ to mist over the surface to check for patchiness or blotchiness with the help of nubuckBrush2™.

Step 2: Airbrush or spray nubuckDye23™ with reduce flow and increase air pressure not to over saturate or load the grains with continuous brushing the nap.

Step 2: Airbrush or spray nubuckColor94™ as above for better coverage and even out appearance.

Step 3: Airbrush or spray nubuckFix99™ to fix the colors and to abate “crocking” which is very common on new nubuck.

Step 4: Airbrush or spray leatherScent’S™ - a non-stick, silky feel conditioner with the classic leather scent.


Bob 

[Mike Osbourne]

SUSSED!

 

[carlton care]

Wonder where you got that from 

robert m

[Bob Robertson]

SUSSED!

 

Wonder where you got that from

robert m

 Okay, it does help if you have read it on another forum.


Bob