[Londoner]

Its not only in window cleaning that these things are happening. I knew somebody who bought a big catering trailer years ago because he was going to make his fortune doing shows and events.

Then he found out the good events were all sewn up and all he could get were bottom end car boot sales which didn't generate anywhere near enough income.

As a London taxi driver I am on the fringes of the car hire trade. Very much the same story applies to these American  stretch limos. You will never find any serious operators buying and running them because everyone knows you can't make them pay. The depreciation and running costs are too high even given the ridiculous prices they try to charge.

The only people that buy them are newbies and they always go broke but if you phone the people who import and sell them they will tell you it a licence to print money.

[Mike 108]

Steve

I think its all relative, surely. Relative to a persons confidence and desire.

Some people are averse to borrowing and will only spend once they've 'earned'.

Others will borrow small amounts to start with, and if it appears to be 'working out' will borrow more.

What is 'slow' or 'fast' will be interpreted differrently by different people.

Getting there in the end (wherever it is you want to be) is what's important.

The speed you get there is up to you.

GOD - what am I rambling on about - I'm turning into EWAN

[Steve CM]

Steve

I think its all relative, surely. Relative to a persons confidence and desire.

Some people are averse to borrowing and will only spend once they've 'earned'.

Others will borrow small amounts to start with, and if it appears to be 'working out' will borrow more.

What is 'slow' or 'fast' will be interpreted differrently by different people.

Getting there in the end (wherever it is you want to be) is what's important.

The speed you get there is up to you.

GOD - what am I rambling on about - I'm turning into EWAN

good answer Mike 

I think i fall into the section of dipping my toe in then realising the formula and staking higher to gain what i want.

The only thing i will say is the old saying of building to quick can ruin you before you start. I believe you need to build a solid foundation before attempting anything to big.

you wouldn't build a house on shaky foundations would you? otherwise it will fall down!

[macmac]

Crikey Ewan it's pretty obvious i would have thought. The people buying these units aren't the ones on this forum slagging each other off over earnings. It's the big commercial boys who can earn that kind of money on huge contracts. Mr domestic is going to struggle to pay for that kind of kit even with a full round. This doesn't nessesarilly mean that the operator is on the big money, he probably earns less than a lot of us it's the company as a whole who needs those high paying contracts.
Your last sentance seems to be put there to ridicule window cleaners. Are you getting all this crap from a book? Never a question like" how can i fix my varistream" just a constant barrage of marketing and earnings questions usually answered by yourself and rammed down our throats like we are a load of idiots!
I suggest you go out and buy one then in six months tell us how your getting on.

Thanks FTP, you just saved my pretty little finger ends a wee bit of extra wear!

Antony

[HIGH LEVEL WINDOW CLEANERS (scrimmy)]

its a tuff call this one, i know the big guys up here spend thousands on the latest equipment and vans etc and i have no problem with that coz they have got the money and they are generating employment for the guys who cant or wont go across into self employment.

on the other hand i think to deride someone who only spent 200-300 quid on a diy setup is equally bad.....most of the guys i know (including guys that worked for me and had the wherewithall to setup on their own) dont have the huge amount of cash needed to get a setup from ionics or the other suppliers out there....so if they cant afford that then shall we say you cant start at all?...not at all.....i would much rather see a window cleaner convert to the cheapest possible option of wfp than be another stastistic on the HSE annual report of window cleaners that have fallen to their deaths.

[HIGH LEVEL WINDOW CLEANERS (scrimmy)]

i really should read the title before i drone on..... ....i aint saying how much i make......its never enuff anyway :...plus if you make more than me i will be jealous....and if you make less than me i will be a little smug .......and i dont like jealous people anyway.

[ftp]

You don’t have to talk about your own finances, you can just generalise about all the options available with what your current knowledge and understanding.

That way there’s no bragging about money or personal information that you wish to keep that way.

There already been a few good posts. But nobody has really pushed the boat out.

ftp you have some strong views how long have you been window cleaning?

I've been windowcleaning just under two years, i invested about £10,000 in total to get me started - totally diy. I canvassed my own round to start with and spent the first year without enough work for my likeing. My second year has been very busy with the add on of gutter cleaning with a diy vac. I could still take on more work particularly if i worked in the rain (i don't) I have several thousand pounds to pay in tax by January (god knows how you've avoided that). That's about it, my earnings are my business and nobody elses and i'm a sole trader.
So what about you? Haven't seen your earnings plastered over the forum yet why's that?
I don't think i have strong views, i think i have strong reactions to some of your posts which are strong views. I'm not very business minded, but i am strong on common sense i feel.

[macmac]

You don’t have to talk about your own finances, you can just generalise about all the options available with what your current knowledge and understanding.

That way there’s no bragging about money or personal information that you wish to keep that way.

There already been a few good posts. But nobody has really pushed the boat out.

ftp you have some strong views how long have you been window cleaning?

I've been windowcleaning just under two years, i invested about £10,000 in total to get me started - totally diy. I canvassed my own round to start with and spent the first year without enough work for my likeing. My second year has been very busy with the add on of gutter cleaning with a diy vac. I could still take on more work particularly if i worked in the rain (i don't) I have several thousand pounds to pay in tax by January (god knows how you've avoided that). That's about it, my earnings are my business and nobody elses and i'm a sole trader.
So what about you? Haven't seen your earnings plastered over the forum yet why's that?

He's still another year to do at "the royal institute of extreme analysis & severe deep thought" before he get's on to practical!

You should take him under your wing david

[dd]

Really don't understand the point of this topic as Ewan answers it in his original post saying that "there is no secret". I think he just likes winding people up and mentioning Ionics very expensive systems is always a good start.

Other companies do hot water systems now if you want one, Ionics is not your only option if you do not want to go DIY.

[Tosh]

Ewan,

If you want something to investigate, try this one.

Recently I lost a contract to OCS (the UKs biggest window cleaning company; though I believe it's a franchise).  The building that I lost contains a big solicitors firm, a dentist and an orthodontist.

Nice job, quick to pay, nice customers.

I lost it because the owners of the building sold it onto another company who use a management company which sounds like 'Kings-scurge'; it's based in London; I think it's a big management company.

My customers all said in a meeting they wished to retain their current window cleaner, (me) and at first they said yes, if I provided a risk/method statement and a copy of my insurance.  But then they changed their minds and said they had to use the one they use (OCS).

So I phoned 'Kings-scurge' (I got the number from my customer) and spoke to a friendly bloke; and this is what they told me:

1.   They used to have 2000 sub-contractors (obviously not all window cleaners), but the admin was a 'nightmare', so they've reduced this number down to 200.

2.   They only use OCS for their window cleaning, however this is not cast in iron; and he gave me another number to phone, and if I fitted a certain criteria (which he didn't know what it was), it was possible for us to be added to their list of approved contractors.

But I didn't bother; I'm in this job to keep life simple.

Anyway, I still do the insides of this property, OCS only do the outside (it's in the building contract that the tennants are responsible for the interior of their window cleaning).

OCS do the bare minimum; the last time I was there the windows looked rotten; so they must 'fly round'; which isn't bad because they can't possibly lose the contract.

So, Ewan, why don't you investigate the big management companies and try to get on their list of approved contractors?  You may have to do a few short courses; 'elf & safety stuff; I don't really know what their criteria will be.

But it's something tangible, where-as you seem to be groping for the intangible.

It's not rocket science (who is it that get's wound up by that phrase?  )

[dai]

I don't know about you guys, but I have never had a prospective client come and inspect my system before deciding to give me the job.
Most of them have no idea whether you have the latest Ionics system or a DIY one.
Most of our systems have exactly the same components, It's not as if [using Tosh's comparison] we are comparing a Roller and a London taxi.
Too many people are being influenced by the big brands hype, it's getting to the point where the Reach and wash logo is worth more than the van and it's installed equipment, but worth more to who? Not the client  that's for sure.
If a guy believes he can really run faster in the latest Nike trainers, then let him buy them, but trainers are rarely bought for that purpose, they buy them to impress others, and the others in our case is very rarely the client.

[Pristine Clean]

Well this is intersting...

But a difficult one. Especially without upsetting anyone.

I think everyone has their place. Just like traditional wc has its place and wfp has its place.

For instance, would a large company take on small work compared to a one man band. Probably not!

I have only been doing window cleaning for a short while, its not my main business just an addon. But I must say I myself have found it easy to get wc jobs. I am still looking for more thou, As I want to grow. Soon it will be my main area.

I do not own an IONIC or reach and wash system... they are far too expensive for me. That does not mean I wont buy one at a later date.

I have just purchased a static cold system that produces 1000litres in 4 hours with salt container and water softener, its an RO init . with 1000 ibc tanks in a cage.
also have a trolley system 75litre, but it can be used as a truck mount system. Just connect a hose and off you go.

I have found I have with this got large clients and small clients. So you dont need to purchase and i will say invest instead of wasting £40,000. Just to get and earn lots of money.

Now wether you have a £40,000 peice of kit or a home made DIY kit it does not matter. At the end of the day they do the same job. OK there is no denying that the more expensive kit will do something better or quicker.

I mean my Jaguar will out run my l200 pickup any day... but then you expect it too.

What does matter is Marketing. And your commitment. And your goals that you are setting yourself. Some people run before they can walk and manage to get away with it. Other are not so lucky.

As for being VAT registered... well I am VAT registered. But it also has its draw backs. But if you are clever there are ways of not having to go VAT registered.

As for working for large management companies well I can say from experience its not all its cracked up to be. But if you can get in with them and providing its the way you want to go then go for it. But you have to keep updating your details yearly with them like insurance and certificates etc.

Too many people judge a book by the cover, and just because they want to repair there veristream instead of purchasing a new one does not mean that he does not have the money there to buy one.

Even thou I have purchased a new system, I will also go throu Tosh'es instructions on how to make a cheap pole for under £40.00 

Dave

[trevor perry]

Well this is intersting...

But a difficult one. Especially without upsetting anyone.

I think everyone has their place. Just like traditional wc has its place and wfp has its place.

For instance, would a large company take on small work compared to a one man band. Probably not!

I have only been doing window cleaning for a short while, its not my main business just an addon. But I must say I myself have found it easy to get wc jobs. I am still looking for more thou, As I want to grow. Soon it will be my main area.

I do not own an IONIC or reach and wash system... they are far too expensive for me. That does not mean I wont buy one at a later date.

I have just purchased a static cold system that produces 1000litres in 4 hours with salt container and water softener, its an RO init . with 1000 ibc tanks in a cage.
also have a trolley system 75litre, but it can be used as a truck mount system. Just connect a hose and off you go.

I have found I have with this got large clients and small clients. So you dont need to purchase and i will say invest instead of wasting £40,000. Just to get and earn lots of money.

Now wether you have a £40,000 peice of kit or a home made DIY kit it does not matter. At the end of the day they do the same job. OK there is no denying that the more expensive kit will do something better or quicker.

I mean my Jaguar will out run my l200 pickup any day... but then you expect it too.

What does matter is Marketing. And your commitment. And your goals that you are setting yourself. Some people run before they can walk and manage to get away with it. Other are not so lucky.

As for being VAT registered... well I am VAT registered. But it also has its draw backs. But if you are clever there are ways of not having to go VAT registered.

As for working for large management companies well I can say from experience its not all its cracked up to be. But if you can get in with them and providing its the way you want to go then go for it. But you have to keep updating your details yearly with them like insurance and certificates etc.

Too many people judge a book by the cover, and just because they want to repair there veristream instead of purchasing a new one does not mean that he does not have the money there to buy one.

Even thou I have purchased a new system, I will also go throu Tosh'es instructions on how to make a cheap pole for under £40.00 

Dave

  i have read a lot of your posts and at last someone is posting who lives in the real world.

[macmac]

Nothing to add again macmac, what a surprise
   
Now don’t go and post about how great you are because that’s all you do when you are not commenting on other.

Just because you can’t come up with anything original or anything come to think about it, try and hold you council.

By all means post something useful.




No it not a wind up DD, at worst it will just show up the boaster for who they really are.

Others may come away with a bit of knowledge from the ones who have posted and know what they are on about.

You can dress common sense up with bells, whistles, whatever you like BUT, you can't pull the wool over my eyes young'un!
Your self-expressed "intelligence? " I do find amusing though

macmac the great

[matt]

i dont uderstand Ewan, his posts are never about window cleaner, does he window clean ? ? ? ? i might have missed a post about if he is or isnt

any1 care to explain the interest in this game

[matt]

I do, why would anyone want to post their sales as you call it or more importantly their earnings on an open forum?

you wouldn't. and i wouldn't.

and nor would i
ewan
do you ask everyone you meet how much they earn
if you get introduced to someone in the pub do you spend the evening saying "how much you pulling down a year then?"
i may be old fashioned but  i just think its plain rude

last year i went to party, it was my mums best freinds 40 th wedding anniversary
we all went, my mum, bro and me ( with respective wifes and my daughter )
the father of my old best mate in school was at the bar ( he also knows them ) i havent seen his son ( or him ) for 20 years

the first thing he said " oh hi matt, whats your P.A this year "

eh ? ? ? ? ?

not, how are you, havent seen you in 20 years

he was interested in what a success i had become by judgeing me by my earnings  : : :

[macmac]

Ewan

you've been asked twice & not replied, so I'll make it three-

Do you clean windows or not?

Are you what we call a window cleaner?

[matt]

I’m more than just a window cleaner, macmac. I went self employed not just so I can clean windows. If I wanted to do just that I might as well just get a job as a window cleaner.

I don’t think there’s any mystery to what a window cleaner is able to earn but there will be variations and reasons for that. I thought that might be worth discussion.

are you also a politician  ? ?? ??

[macmac]

I’m more than just a window cleaner, macmac. I went self employed not just so I can clean windows. If I wanted to do just that I might as well just get a job as a window cleaner.

I don’t think there’s any mystery to what a window cleaner is able to earn but there will be variations and reasons for that. I thought that might be worth discussion.

So what exactly are you?

[Oakley Windows]

Ive always thought he's a windup merchant, as has been said, he never talks about window cleaning.