[Paul Coleman]

The point i'm making is that traditional windowcleaners have virtually no cost. Nothing wrong with trad cleaners - i wouldn't describe them as cowboys, but until trad disappears then as far as domestic work goes you don't have a level field thats all.

I think you have oversimplified it though.  The much higher cost of buying and maintaining equipment is more than offset by being able to do (most of) the work much more quickly.  That's what I've found anyway.

[William Tyndale]

Over the last 7 months my costs and tax are 32.61%

Each customer costs me £4.11 to service.

Average customer is £12.61

So if i earn £150 tomorrow £50 is cost. £100 is mine!

Obvoiusly it depends on how much you earn/spend.
It aso depends on the ave price of each customer.

[macmac]

I'm just glad i earn good money & so don't have to be concerned or worry about such things.

Hey, maybe i'm just a natural born business man? I'm quite well off, have NO deabts (apart from a 35% LTV mortgage),

van= paid for cash
all equipment= paid for cash
car= paid for cash

NO credit cards

I own everything apart from 35% of my home! whey hey

But the best bit is that i run my wc empire from an A4 week per view diary & a 2001 renault kangoo ( not sign written)  ( AND NO, I DON'T NEED GEORGE, SEE?
)

tONY

I used to run my empire from a week to view diary too, then I left it in the van one night and it got stolen, no backup as such, just accounts to use to figure it all out, nightmare! now I keep 2 backups one on site, one off in case of fire etc.

I only ever take an A4 sheet with me in the van & have 2 backups at home. The A4 diary + a list of all my work on the pc, which is where i print my work sheets from.

Still, i earn enough not to have to worry about costs. IMO, even wfp, for a business, if done properly should have very little running costs & expenses, especialy when compared to what can be earned from such little outlay. (again, if done properly)

Tony

[alanwilson]

assume second hand van @ £5k

depreciation £1500
fuel £2500
water £1000
resin £100
filters £40
membrane replaced every 4 years £50
road tax and ins £700
tyres servicing etc £300
PL ins £150
uniform (for 1) £100

Total £6540 per year = £125 a week = £25 a day

obviously there is income tax etc on top of this

[macmac]

I'm just glad i earn good money & so don't have to be concerned or worry about such things.

Hey, maybe i'm just a natural born business man? I'm quite well off, have NO deabts (apart from a 35% LTV mortgage),

van= paid for cash
all equipment= paid for cash
car= paid for cash

NO credit cards

I own everything apart from 35% of my home! whey hey

But the best bit is that i run my wc empire from an A4 week per view diary & a 2001 renault kangoo ( not sign written)  ( AND NO, I DON'T NEED GEORGE, SEE?
)

tONY

I used to run my empire from a week to view diary too, then I left it in the van one night and it got stolen, no backup as such, just accounts to use to figure it all out, nightmare! now I keep 2 backups one on site, one off in case of fire etc.

I only ever take an A4 sheet with me in the van & have 2 backups at home. The A4 diary + a list of all my work on the pc, which is where i print my work sheets from.

Still, i earn enough not to have to worry about costs. IMO, even wfp, for a business, if done properly should have very little running costs & expenses, especialy when compared to what can be earned from such little outlay. (again, if done properly)

Tony

To vague, saying you earn good money what ever is good money! Not knowing what your cost is assuming it’s just a little outlay then paying cash for everything, implying financing your business is wrong and debt is bad.
 
Saying you do it properly and yet everything you say you admit to not knowing what you are doing. Then go on to say what you can earn for such little outlay if you do it properly!

I can see why you are struggling with this thread; fact is there are relatively considerable expenses in any trade.

Unless you pare everything down but you will restrict your business. Which is fine if that’s what you want?

My business is not restricted at all, my earnings are good & my expenses are minimal, ALL my equipment & vehicle are paid for (cash) and i can still afford time off whenever i want it. Now Ewan, please tell me where i'm going wrong

Oh, & i do know exactly what my expenses are, well, i do when i add them up on 5th April And every year they are minimal compared to turnover!

Do some people over-analize things & have little common sense or am i realy this good

Tony

[tonyoliver]

I think it's obvious where you've gone wrong Anthony, you need to analise your business daily,
Heap more stress on yourself, borrow more money and worry yourself sick.

Have you got laminate flooring in the garage yet? ......................................... you should by now 

ANAL  ise your round my my no wonder you smile soooooooooooooooo much

[ftp]

Did you like that? 
I find it hilarious how some people delve into their businesses and worry over every detail then you get someone like Tony (and a lot of us) who just don't need to. It's just cleaning windows thats all - the most basic business out there. Doesn't matter too much at the end of the day just as long as your earning a descent wage.

[Paul Coleman]

Did you like that? 
I find it hilarious how some people delve into their businesses and worry over every detail then you get someone like Tony (and a lot of us) who just don't need to. It's just cleaning windows thats all - the most basic business out there. Doesn't matter too much at the end of the day just as long as your earning a descent wage.

I suppose it depends on your financial situation really.  If things are tight, you have no choice but to analyse your budget.  Although good money can be made, if there is a high level of pre-existing personal debt (as with me) then things do need looking at more closely.  It may be hilarious for you but for me, it had to be done to stay solvent.  If I had adopted a more flippant attitude, I could have gone under because my self-employment funds my personal debt repayments.  It's a bit easier now but I still reckon it will be a couple of years before I can relax a bit more.
Everybody's circumstances are different which is why there are often a number of solutions to the same problem.

[Sir Squeaky]

Did you like that? 
I find it hilarious how some people delve into their businesses and worry over every detail then you get someone like Tony (and a lot of us) who just don't need to. It's just cleaning windows thats all - the most basic business out there. Doesn't matter too much at the end of the day just as long as your earning a descent wage.

I totally agree.
It's just another reason for people to willy-wave on a forum.

If you're worrying about things like that all the time you'll have a short stressed life.

I doubt I spend more than £30-50 a year on trad bits, and £100-odd on a new pole now and again.
Fuel is £20 a week, that's a grand.
£300 a year insurance.
Isn't much else to pay for is there?

Cheapest business you can get.
Don't know how some people spend so much.
No wonder they're always worrying...

[Alex Gardiner]

Did you like that? 
I find it hilarious how some people delve into their businesses and worry over every detail then you get someone like Tony (and a lot of us) who just don't need to. It's just cleaning windows thats all - the most basic business out there. Doesn't matter too much at the end of the day just as long as your earning a descent wage.

I totally agree.
It's just another reason for people to willy-wave on a forum.

If you're worrying about things like that all the time you'll have a short stressed life.

I doubt I spend more than £30-50 a year on trad bits, and £100-odd on a new pole now and again.
Fuel is £20 a week, that's a grand.
£300 a year insurance.
Isn't much else to pay for is there?

Cheapest business you can get.
Don't know how some people spend so much.
No wonder they're always worrying...

What about your van lease cost?

[Sir Squeaky]

Ok, fair enough, but that's my choice of a luxury.
It's not something you have to spend out on.

[Paul Coleman]

Ok, fair enough, but that's my choice of a luxury.
It's not something you have to spend out on.

Telephone (or proportion of), accountancy fees, advertising, stationery, resin, pre-filters, vehicle maintenance (once your's gets older), clothing.  Of course some of these are optional depending if you do your own accounts.  Also, maybe you don't need to concern yourself with water as I think Ian supplies that.  It may well be that you aren't offsetting all expenditure that you're entitled to.  Some of the less obvious items that have appeared in my accounts in recent years include (and I can justify all of them though some are apportioned), sunglasses, washing powder, interest (when I've paid for a business item on a cc), interest on the business proportion of my van loan, a basic tool set to maintain my equipment, heater (for van in Winter), spare keys (for garage lock-up), sealant, battery charger, bicycle pump (for trolley tyres), map (for when I started canvassing a new area) that I wasn't familiar with, rubber matting (to lay over hoses in certain situations), spare blade fuses, FSB membership, weighbridge check (when I wanted to find out how much water I could get in while loaded with other equipment), postage excess (when a customer sent a cheque in an oversized envelope ands only normal postage), several parking fees (not fines), parking permit (proportion) as I live in a resident only parking area, toner cartridges (I print a fair bit of my own stationery), glue, pens, train fare to attend a drought order hearing (not sure if accountant knocked that one off or not), re-imbursuing customer for damage (broke a garden table - oops!! ), spare bulbs for van, anti-virus software (proportion), cordless phone batteries, in car charger for mobile, bed & breakfast (NEC visit for cleaning show),  velcro strips, watering can/gardening trowel (I use these to re-fill resin vessels), external hard drive (proportion) to back up accounts files, domain name charges, photocopier usage (don't ask LOL), shredder, and a couple of courses at BWCA.
Although some of those items are small, they are all valid business expenses (or proportions thereof where there is some personal usage).  The time it took to enter these on my spreadsheet was less than it took to make this post but it saved me something from my tax bill.  The above are not all in one year.  I just cast my eye down a column of my spreadsheet to note some of the less obvious ones.
Boring isn't it? 

[ftp]

Shiners list was quite interesting really, but the point is with a small business like mine there seems little point in studying my costs in any great detail because 90% of them are nessesary, unavoidable even. If i wanted to reduce costs i would need to be working with absolutely rubbish equipment. Different i feel for a large company for example Gardiners who are selling a range of products and need to know where the money is being lost or made and maybe adjust their range or prices. For a windowcleaner what can you do apart from push your prices up?

[Paul Coleman]

Shiners list was quite interesting really, but the point is with a small business like mine there seems little point in studying my costs in any great detail because 90% of them are nessesary, unavoidable even. If i wanted to reduce costs i would need to be working with absolutely rubbish equipment. Different i feel for a large company for example Gardiners who are selling a range of products and need to know where the money is being lost or made and maybe adjust their range or prices. For a windowcleaner what can you do apart from push your prices up?

This won't apply to many but I intend to save myself about £450 a year by giving my garage space back to the council.  It will take a while as it's full of stuff.  Gradually getting it to the tip.  The rest will go to a boot sale or ebay.  May eventually even be some second hand equipment for sale on here too.  I used to use the garage for my work vehicle and ladders but am likely to stick with vans that are too big for the garage in future.  I put loads in it when I moved away and rented my flat out.  Then it also became a WFP museum as well.  Anyway, £9.28 (tax deductible) a week is being wasted I feel so that's one saving I can make.  Another way to save a bit is to make sure (as far as poss) that the work is being done with as little travel as possible (not always easy).

[birdymiller]

Tony, ftp I don’t think you are going wrong, you just run your business different. Any one can plod on all day that easy.

It’s just not realistic, when me and other’s are window cleaner’s and have our own business to run and understand cost. It’s plain to see you are only kidding yourself.

I think your comment and those that agree with you boast the loudest about window cleaning. Not the ones who just inflate earnings.

There are people on this site who have a proper business and comparing yourself to those is where you are going wrong. You should compare yourself’s to each other to see how much money you have saved, not made this is a key difference.

Difference between me and you, myself and other’s know and understand window cleaning cost, you don’t.

You wrote it ewan anyone can plod on all day thats easy. That is why 99.9% of us are window cleaners because we are our own boss, work whatever hours we choose, get paid well and its easy. We could do alot of other things like worry about every cost we incur, but as long as our costs dont spiral out of control plodding is good for me. We all know how much we roughly spend each month whether it is related to our business or personal life. The aim of the game is to earn more than what we spend.

From my experience my switch from trad to wfp could have cost me under £500. For 6 months i have not had to pay out any extra costs if i didnt want to. I chose to buy backpacks and a new pole but my initial £500 investment could have sufficed.

[macmac]

To sum up-

What Ewan portrays as "Sir. Alan Sugar type business credentials" Many others just accept as common sense!!  :

Rocket science it is you know, adding things up!

Plodding? Get real, I work very efficiently, I know what all my costs are, I predict my future costs etc. ( this is the common sense bit), that's why my business works dude! NOT because I analyse my every move!

So, In Ewan's eyes if you analyse everything you are a proper business man who can command respect
If you don't, no matter how much profit you earn or how good, big your business is you'll just always be a plodder/cowboy

Tony

[NWH]

Cheers Shiner that should put things in perspective for new window cleaners (and others)

Good rule of thumb would be anywhere between £35,000 - £45,000 over the first five years, £35-£45 a day.

I think those figures are a bit high for a 1 man setup.

[Paul Coleman]

Cheers Shiner that should put things in perspective for new window cleaners (and others)

Good rule of thumb would be anywhere between £35,000 - £45,000 over the first five years, £35-£45 a day.

I think those figures are a bit high for a 1 man setup.

If I was doing it again, I would be able to do it much more cheaply.   The first five years may well cost me a bit over £40,000.  The second five years will cost nothing like that.  I'm assuming that 5 years equals one vehicle BTW.  However, if I had let go of the garage sooner, I could have shaved over 2 grand off that.