[Chris Galloway]

All is ok until you fall off your ladder and break your leg! Seriously Stan, Yes the operator didn't know what he was doing but do we have to start this debate again? Everyone knows that WFP is the superior method

women who spoke to me today doesnt think so 

Ah but when you fall off your ladder you wont be so cocky Some accidents cant happen on the ground. Also you may think it's great but she wants to pay you same  (at most) money that she would pay a wfper. The risks involved for you are far greater than mine. There is no chance in me falling 15ft and breaking my leg. Who is the fool? IMO you, why take the more risks for no reward? Dose not make sense to me.

Many window cleaners who use ladders never have an incident. Its just about reducing risks.

I bet many wfp'er's here with systems dont even know if they had a full tank going 60mph down a road would be confident there tank will stay in place after an accident! Your more likely to die from that than you are from falling from a ladder.

Reduce the ricks reduce the chance. But it doesn't mean injuring yourself will never happen whatever system you use.

[Chris Galloway]

tried hot coffee much better than cold coffee

i quite like the frapps they have in greece ,basically cold coffee with ice in

they have them here too     :

where ?

Starbucks for starters.. no idea if anywhere else does it.

[pjulk]

WCE said -

when you fall off your ladder

Thats the strange thing about this forum i don't really understand.
Whenever someone say anything about using ladders there is always someone who say when you fall off your ladders blah blah blah.

Window cleaners have been using ladders since they were invented.
So what did everone do before WFP im sure they used ladders.
And did any other window cleaner say to you when you fall off your ladders No they didn't they didn't bat an eyelid.

Ladder are a part of our trade so find it weird in people saying these things.
Or maybe its the new breed of window cleaners who are to scared to get up a ladder as they have a magic pole.
They probably can only clean with a WFP anyway and have not got a clue how to clean traditional

[Sir Squeaky]

I bet many wfp'er's here with systems dont even know if they had a full tank going 60mph down a road would be confident there tank will stay in place after an accident! Your more likely to die from that than you are from falling from a ladder.

That's so true.

I've got far more chance of being squashed in my van (even without the tank, purely because I'm 2ft from the front of the vehicle!).

People pull out in front of me and overtake towards me all day long, but I never had a dodgy incident with a ladder in 10 years!

[Chris Galloway]

WCE said -

when you fall off your ladder

Thats the strange thing about this forum i don't really understand.
Whenever someone say anything about using ladders there is always someone who say when you fall off your ladders blah blah blah.

Window cleaners have been using ladders since they were invented.
So what did everone do before WFP im sure they used ladders.
And did any other window cleaner say to you when you fall off your ladders No they didn't they didn't bat an eyelid.

Ladder are a part of our trade so find it weird in people saying these things.
Or maybe its the new breed of window cleaners who are to scared to get up a ladder as they have a magic pole.
They probably can only clean with a WFP anyway and have not got a clue how to clean traditional

You may be right, but i started on ladders and i prefer using them as part of the job, but sometimes most of my custies have conservatories or the like, and didn't want me to scale them, and i need to use the pole anyway, so i just use it for the whole property.

After a while you just get used to leaving the ladder on the van. but if i had problems with my wfp setup, i can just as easy do it the trad way.

I prefer wfp now, just because i can use it in the rain, and give a guarantee it will be clean after it rains, or i will re clean it. Im actually on top of my round atm, normally i would be behind with this drizzle.

Time to get canvassing for more custies

[Wayne Thomas]

the only people who say wfp is better are the people who cant clean a window properly, however wfp does have its uses

I can clean windows properly with WFP and take work from trad cleaners. I may possibly trip and fall over my hose and dent my pride but fall off a ladder and it's more than pride that hurts. BTW I also use ladders (for access only) so stick that in your pipe and smoke it.
IMO wfp is better for two main reasons:
1. It's safer
2. it's quicker
Why would any good wfp operator want to risk their life for less pay....madness

[EVER CLEAN]

ive had an idea...............

lets all go to work on skateboards
use a leather and scrim
and only do bottom windows whilst wearing a viz vest and crash hat
..................... BE SAFE ....... BE SEEN.......................

[EVER CLEAN]

well stan! youve really started something here mate

[johns window kleen]

I think there is too much wind up talk on here between WFP and ladder users.
I can do both well, so probably can most .
Today I had 3 trad cleaners watching me use WFP and they were asking about technique,  the finish,and watching how WFP cleans all the frames etc,etc. Results were as good as theirs. No animosity just guys interested in seeing how this other system works.
Why the war of words? No one wants to hear of one of their fellow shiners getting hurt, maybe thats why some flag up the possibility of ladder use accidents.
Stan have you ever tried WFP,?I doubt it. Why not have a go, and then tell us what you think, until you do you can only speculate about how good or bad the job can be done, especially if WFP is used properly.

[johns window kleen]

Mate I think you are too far away from me, im in East Anglia, for me to show you, or let you have a go. I honestly think you would be so surprised with the results. Why not see if anyone else WFp on here is near you and have a quick meet up. If theyre leaving windows streaky thay aint doing it right, honestly,and deserve to loose customers.
Shame is this gives WFP  a bad name, to some people, who will then tell all friends and neighbours that the system is rubbish. It isnt its the operator.

[Chris Galloway]

Mate I think you are too far away from me, im in East Anglia, for me to show you, or let you have a go. I honestly think you would be so surprised with the results. Why not see if anyone else WFp on here is near you and have a quick meet up. If theyre leaving windows streaky thay aint doing it right, honestly,and deserve to loose customers.
Shame is this gives WFP  a bad name, to some people, who will then tell all friends and neighbours that the system is rubbish. It isnt its the operator.

Very true, ive come up against this when canvassing.

I will actually offer to do 2 windows for free to show them its possible to get a good streak free clean window. or otherwise i will do them and return and pay them their money back if they can show me streaks. I explain to them its not the method its the operator. Eventually they see the light.

[seandyer2003]

Starbucks for starters.. no idea if anywhere else does it.

never been in starbucks been told a cup of coffee is dearer than a pint

amen, me and missus had a hot chocolate in their today and it was  £5, its only a few mins work   but i was thinking i could of had a stronger beverage in a different establishment for the same price!

[lovewindows]

tried hot coffee much better than cold coffee

Tried warm beer !, or coke etc etc etc 

[Chris Galloway]

Starbucks for starters.. no idea if anywhere else does it.

never been in starbucks been told a cup of coffee is dearer than a pint

amen, me and missus had a hot chocolate in their today and it was  £5, its only a few mins work   but i was thinking i could of had a stronger beverage in a different establishment for the same price!

I know mr st ives doesn't like us getting off topic with coffee But i like to spend a Sunday morning in Starbucks enjoying a latte with the missus.

Coffee is better for you than a pint, and i dont drink much nowadays anyway (and its cheaper than a friday night in the pub ). Saving for more equipment, new van etc.

[Dean Taberner]

About 6 month ago when I was trad somebody saw us cleaning in their street and asked us to clean theirs as they were unhappy with their WFP cleaner. I did so and picked up 6 other jobs.

Since Ive switched I was weary of switching theirs but I thought stuff it and went for it.

All are happier than they ever have been and remain on my books.

It appears that there is a massive difference between splash, dash and cash and PROPER WFP window cleaners.  

Dean

[Oakley Windows]

I think there is too much wind up talk on here between WFP and ladder users.
I can do both well, so probably can most .
Today I had 3 trad cleaners watching me use WFP and they were asking about technique,  the finish,and watching how WFP cleans all the frames etc,etc. Results were as good as theirs. No animosity just guys interested in seeing how this other system works.
Why the war of words? No one wants to hear of one of their fellow shiners getting hurt, maybe thats why some flag up the possibility of ladder use accidents.
Stan have you ever tried WFP,?I doubt it. Why not have a go, and then tell us what you think, until you do you can only speculate about how good or bad the job can be done, especially if WFP is used properly.

What a nice post.


I picked up an account from a WFPer recently. I got a phone call asking if I could price a job and they said they already had a window-cleaner who was WFP. She said she wasnt happy with the standard of work he did. Anyway I explained that I am also WFP but I also generally say that sometimes it isnt the method of cleaning it can be down to the operator. To me thats fair, quite often it is, Im not that experienced WFP (been doing it 8 months) but I do know lack of thoroughness is probably the easiest way to do a less than satisfactory job. Anyway I went round and we chatted about the job andhow the other guy was leaving it. I said it seemed to me that the guy was using dirty water as the way she was explaining it seemed to point to that. I thought and said to her its likely he's using tap water; just filling his tank from his homes outside tap and using that. She said, 'Oh, yes, he uses the outside tap here' TDS here is 275.

I explained a little to her how WFP works. He's been sacked I have a new custy.

She has clean windows.

Matt

[Tosh]

no i havnt used it or ever seen it used,apart from the bed operater i have talked about  and 1 other part time cleaner,no one round here uses it ,everyone trad.the part time guy is often seen with ladders on and no trailer,so who knows

Stan, it's just the opposite round Chepstow; just about every full time window cleaner there is has a WFP capability.

Even Matt and Ollie have just bought a backpack (Squeaks knows them).

It's taken two years for one of my customers to dump me (he was extremely anti-WFP) for a ladder-only-user, and I said, 'You were lucky to find someone on ladders around here", and he agreed. 

And this particular lad has just came back to the WC trade; but has a reputation for heavily using drugs.

[Sir Squeaky]

And this particular lad has just came back to the WC trade; but has a reputation for heavily using drugs.

He's not drugged up at work!
Just weekend nights.

[Chris Galloway]

no i havnt used it or ever seen it used,apart from the bed operater i have talked about  and 1 other part time cleaner,no one round here uses it ,everyone trad.the part time guy is often seen with ladders on and no trailer,so who knows

Stan, it's just the opposite round Chepstow; just about every full time window cleaner there is has a WFP capability.

Even Matt and Ollie have just bought a backpack (Squeaks knows them).

It's taken two years for one of my customers to dump me (he was extremely anti-WFP) for a ladder-only-user, and I said, 'You were lucky to find someone on ladders around here", and he agreed. 

And this particular lad has just came back to the WC trade; but has a reputation for heavily using drugs.

Probably uses the ladders to get in the windows that are left open to get his next fix.

[[GQC] Tim]

Why didn't anyone point out that the customer said they were streaky, now I'm not sure what she meant with that, because I don't think I have ever left behind streaks, spots and brush marks sure, but streaks? The only time customers said that to me, they were on the inside. They were convinced that they were on the outside, so I went over, dragged my finger over the glass, and said, see? It's on the inside, customer embarrassed of course.

It's always imperative that you get to the bottom of what the marks are on the glass, streaks, smears, spots? Other? Only then you can get a clear understanding of what the problem is and how it got there in the first place, I think that aspect of wfp takes the longest to understand, the pure analytical side of figuring out why a certain window didn't come up right, sure some are blantantly obvious, but some do take a bit of headscratching, and sometimes you just have to face the fact that wfp isn't suitable for it, and do tops only, that's definitely something that needs to be learned, and to keep an open mind about the tools that you use. Customer satisfaction is key, not the 'oh I can't be bothered to fill my bucket cuz wfp is twice as quick, even though I do leave spots on unsuitable windows'. Clean windows is the goal, and using any tool possible to get to that goal is allowed to a certain extend, keeping your own safety and others in mind.

It's really nothing different then traditional, it just requires more brainpower to figure out, that's why some traditional windows cleaners will never get it like somebody once said. It's got a lot to do with not being stuck in your ways, and have an open mind. Or of course, a lack of the aforementioned brain power.  (    )