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cleantech-westmids

  • Posts: 72
NINJA DUAL 2 STAGE OR 3???
« on: August 30, 2008, 09:08:10 pm »
This is my first post so a big hello to you all. I am adding carpet cleaning to our business and i would like to know from the pro's if i were to purchase a NINJA DUAL 2 STAGE WITH HEATER or a DUAL 3 STAGE WITHOUT and would there be any difference to the overall cleaning of carpet? The only reason i ask this is because cleaning-equipment.net over in the US are selling both way cheaper than over here and i haven't got a clue what to go for. Please help guys!

All the best.

Craig

Paul Redden Countryfresh

  • Posts: 773
Re: NINJA DUAL 2 STAGE OR 3???
« Reply #1 on: August 30, 2008, 09:36:02 pm »
Hi Craig,
I would opt for twin three stage, this is three sets of fans in the vac which will give a much higher suction over the two stage version. I would def get a heater with dial up thermostat ( max temp through pump 70c ) This will give you higher efficiency of cleaning or you could get an internal heat exchanger or an external one.

Ashbys in Dartford have all the upgrades for the Ninja.  ;)
Cheers Paul
"So basically its a big vax!"

davep

  • Posts: 2589
Re: NINJA DUAL 2 STAGE OR 3???
« Reply #2 on: August 30, 2008, 09:42:06 pm »
You may have a problem with the voltage and pat testing if importing from usa

clinton

Re: NINJA DUAL 2 STAGE OR 3???
« Reply #3 on: August 31, 2008, 09:24:23 am »
Also the dollar is high so it makes goods from usa cheaper i know a month or so it was nearly 2 to the pound and is now 1.75.

Think all the prices include import and vat and del charge.

cleantech-westmids

  • Posts: 72
Re: NINJA DUAL 2 STAGE OR 3???
« Reply #4 on: August 31, 2008, 04:42:57 pm »
Thanks guys  - all advice appreciated!

Well one company in US can supply a Ninja 500psi DUAL 2 STAGE 150" WL without a built in heater  or a DUAL 3 STAGE 210" WL with heater. Both are the same price at £1105 and come with 25ft of hose and twin jet wand. shipping is £200 and obviously the VAT this end. So all in all it's coming out at around the £1500 mark. To me that seems well cheap compared to over here for then same machine. Oh and it's a 230volt machine!!! Also i can deduct £90 if i choose to not have the hose and wand. What do you think guys? What are the pro's thoughts??? Is it worth buying a wonderwand etc over here?

Cheers!

Craig

cleantech-westmids

  • Posts: 72
Re: NINJA DUAL 2 STAGE OR 3???
« Reply #5 on: August 31, 2008, 05:27:12 pm »
sorry guys i meant a dual 2 stage with heater and 3 stage without!

Jim_77

Re: NINJA DUAL 2 STAGE OR 3???
« Reply #6 on: August 31, 2008, 05:37:11 pm »
You can get a dual 3-stage WITH a heater surely?  My ninjas are ???

Don't go for anything less than dual 3-stage motors, you'll be under-powered even by portable standards.

Are you sure you're not getting "heater" mixed up with the hot solvent feature?

Ian Gourlay

  • Posts: 5746
Re: NINJA DUAL 2 STAGE OR 3???
« Reply #7 on: August 31, 2008, 05:44:08 pm »
It appears500psi pumps could be dodgy so what about repairs

cleantech-westmids

  • Posts: 72
Re: NINJA DUAL 2 STAGE OR 3???
« Reply #8 on: August 31, 2008, 05:51:35 pm »
well it doesnt seem to be an available option regarding heater Jim. check it out if you like cleaning equipment.net. why are 500 psi potentially dodgy mike?

Chris R

  • Posts: 813
Re: NINJA DUAL 2 STAGE OR 3???
« Reply #9 on: August 31, 2008, 06:50:05 pm »
Just thought I would point out that Ashbys will not sell you any spares or repair the machine if you didnt buy it from them.

Could cause you a problem if it breaks down ?

regards
Chris
Staffordshire

cleantech-westmids

  • Posts: 72
Re: NINJA DUAL 2 STAGE OR 3???
« Reply #10 on: August 31, 2008, 06:57:00 pm »
hmmmmm .... thanks chris. that's good to know! maybe us will supply spares, although i wouldn't really want to be repairing it myself. What a dilema  :-\ do i pay £2800 uk or £1500 us when spares could be a problem. tough call but thanks for all your help guys ... very helpful!


carlton care

  • Posts: 429
Re: NINJA DUAL 2 STAGE OR 3???
« Reply #11 on: August 31, 2008, 06:58:37 pm »
You can add an inline heater, which is better for the pump life, or you could just use tap water which will do for 90% of work. You will need 50 - 75 feet of hose to get the best out of the machine.

Wands are a lot more expensive over here, unless you're lucky enough to get a second hand one.

Wonderwand is great, but you will get good results from other less expensive wands, might be worth using glides on bigger jobs.

I think all Ninja parts are available through other suppliers

cleantech-westmids

  • Posts: 72
Re: NINJA DUAL 2 STAGE OR 3???
« Reply #12 on: August 31, 2008, 07:29:30 pm »
spares are available through other companies? top stuff. Isn't it an inline heater with the 2 stage i mentioned then? (cleaning-equipment.net) god i've got alot to learn. so what psi/heater etc should i go for then?  any help is greatly appreciated guys!

Paul Redden Countryfresh

  • Posts: 773
Re: NINJA DUAL 2 STAGE OR 3???
« Reply #13 on: August 31, 2008, 07:58:40 pm »
Got my fan from rs spares....vacs and spares from woodbridge commercial, pumps can be bought from most machine suppliers.

As mentioned the wiring will be black and white colours not uk blue/brown so will not be legal over here....bugger isn't it.  ::)
"So basically its a big vax!"

Jim_77

Re: NINJA DUAL 2 STAGE OR 3???
« Reply #14 on: August 31, 2008, 09:42:48 pm »
An in-tank heater is pretty much a basic standard in the UK.  Maybe the US has lower amperage ratings or some other regs that prevents its use on domestic circuits so it can't be used?

The switch panel on the side of that machine is different from the UK spec.

I'd email the supplier and ask them if they would supply a dual 3-stage vac WITH heater to a UK customer.  In-line heaters must be great for high heat needs on bigger jobs but dragging one around and setting it up on every job?  Must be a right pain, I'd soon get fed up of it!

Those pump pressure ratings don't match the ratings of the Shurflo pumps that Ashbys supply to the UK market.  Not sure if they'd be the same quality or not but it's a proper pain changing the pump, mostly due to getting the hoses on and off the spigots.

Would be an idea to ask them what make the pump is.

A 500psi pump might have a lot higher flow rate than the vacuum performance can deal with.  Finding out the flow rate as well as the pressure would be handy.  I think the 135psi UK-spec ninja flows at 1.4L/min but someone pls correct me if i've got that wrong.

The tanks aren't huge, you'll be forever refilling and emptying with the pressure/flow cranked up and also risking overwetting.  I find the 135psi machine is very well balanced with the flow/recovery, simply upping the volume of rinse isn't necessarily going to be "better", quite the opposite probably.  On some jobs though I reckon it could handle a bit more pressure/flow so the 150psi might be a good option

The water lift is great, brilliant for a portable machine.  But airflow is just as important and is a bit pants on this type of machine, around 100cfm I'd guess.   Obviously that's no different from any other m/c with twin vacs in series.  I wouldn't recommend going over 50ft of hose, only in dire emergency and very slow dry passes with the wand.  I keep mine at 25 as much as I practically can, you can tell the difference even between 25 and 50.  The reason for that is because you're relying on the lift rather than the airflow to extract with, every extra foot of hose you add on increases the size of the space in which the motors are creating a vacuum, thus impeding efficiency.

To be honest if you're happy to spend 1500 bucks on a machine, you can pick up a perfectly serviceable one over here second hand.  They do come up fairly frequently, I picked up a Ninja a few months ago with twin 3-stage vacs, 135psi and a heater run off a separate cable (so it can still run when the motors are running) and paid 700 quid for it.

Any portable will do, ignore the name on the outside, it's the spec of the vac motors and the pump that determine how good it is, everything else is gravy.

carlton care

  • Posts: 429
Re: NINJA DUAL 2 STAGE OR 3???
« Reply #15 on: August 31, 2008, 09:56:07 pm »
Yep, the inline heater can be a pain, but if added between the furthest hose from the machine and the wand it gives very high heat, ideally with hot, or moderately hot, tap water in the tank. This allows you to deal with very heavily soiled areas.

The in tank heater adds weight and reduces pump life ( according to manufacturers ) although I've never had that problem.


Jim_77

Re: NINJA DUAL 2 STAGE OR 3???
« Reply #16 on: August 31, 2008, 10:14:50 pm »
I've never had a pump go on the machines I've run in the last 6 years, I've even tweaked one of my ninjas so the water's over 90 celcius in-tank, it bubbles!  The pump still performs and sounds fine but yeah this may ultimately reduce its life running it a lot hotter than it's supposed to be!  Pumps are a consumable part though in my opinion, if you can get a better performance from your machine by doing this then it's a worthwhile thing to do.

I changed one before a big job last year because it was 5 years old and I didn't want it conking out half way through.  I've even got a shurflo pump in an electric sprayer that's about 30 years old, no joking!  Don't know if the pump is as old as the machine but it still puts out the 80psi static pressure it presumably had the day it was fitted.  That's after god knows how many gallons of hot chemicals have been through it!

carlton care

  • Posts: 429
Re: NINJA DUAL 2 STAGE OR 3???
« Reply #17 on: August 31, 2008, 10:38:26 pm »
Thinking about it, in twenty years I've never suffered a pump failure from any of the twenty or so machines I've owned and have also ramped up the temperature to it's max on many occasions.

Unfortunately, the same can't be said about vac' motors.

Jim_77

Re: NINJA DUAL 2 STAGE OR 3???
« Reply #18 on: September 01, 2008, 12:20:30 am »
I rarely ever have vac motors blow on me, last one was 2 years ago, one before that probably well over a year before.  They're just the standard Lamb Electric 3-stage ones.

It makes me laugh when folks say they have to replace their pump and motors all the time.  They must be either using crap components or abusing them :)

As a general rule, pumps and motors will go on for a very long time if they're looked after by:

> Never straining the motors with lock-down (I think a glide has greatly helped this)
> Never submerging the hose in to the fresh tank to remove the surplus fresh water, just hold the hose cuff to the surface and do it gradually
> Always put some fresh cold water through the pump after using any chems in the rinse
> Always leave the cooling fan running for 5 mins after you switch the motors off, to remove latent heat from the pump and motor bodies.  Latent heat travels back in to the components and can damage them.

The motors in one of my machines are stamped 2003 ;D

carlton care

  • Posts: 429
Re: NINJA DUAL 2 STAGE OR 3???
« Reply #19 on: September 01, 2008, 09:06:39 am »
Only abuse my Ninja motors ever got was switching them on and off and they were always run for a couple of minutes to allow them to dry out.

In the US I think any heater supply to machine has to be connected to their laundry dryung circuit. I think I read that somewhere