[poleman]

Trad! meaning ladders

No it doesn't. In this day and age it means using applicator and squeegie. Ladders don't enter the equation on this occassion.

Neil in my book it does mean ladders, in anyone eles book thats up to them!

[NWH]

wfp men trying to justify spending thousands on a system that is only suitable for third floor and higher,

it will never do as good a job as trad,

any wfp man i have spoken to has said it is rubbish,and i have seen the results for myself,

take 20 or 30 houses in one street , are you saying it is easier with wfp than trad?

i have seen plenty of wfp men doing offices but never seen any doing houses,

trad will never disappear.

Think about it carefully now,have you ever wondered why they keep telling you it` rubbish i`m being serious.I had this for about 3 years before i saw the WFP light and it was to try and stop others from switching,i`m not telling porkys here i later found out that was the reason.

[vision tech]

look at how many post on this site about the probs with wfp and how many with probs with trad,

also i do work for a flat management company and they got a wfp guy to clean their windows ,5 times they done them and still rubbish,

give me 1 go and it will be perfect.

[jaykie]

Why is a management company allowing a firm to do 5 cleans rubbish, why hasnt it been brought to the attention early.

Chris

[vision tech]

sorry mate maybe i worded this wrong,

the flat management firm i am talking about moved into new premises, the windows where bad , so one day when i called in to get paid for a job on there books i said would you like me to clean your windows for a tenner?
they said no another guy who works for us said he will clean them for free,
he is wfp, 5 times,still not clean.

[jaykie]

Obviously doesnt no how to use then, I think both are good, ive picked up work from people who have had trad guys that are useless, and i no trad guys who are really good who have picked up work from wfp guys, if a custy gets either clean that is bad they tend to blame the tools,

Chris

[Sir Squeaky]

It does happen.

I used to do a big council retirement home, and three times a year the council did them themselves.

Every resident complained about the poor results and spots.
They loved it when I came around and tidied up with the squeegee.
I had no chance of converting that place to wfp.

As it was I couldn't anyway, as it was far too long for my 100M hose to reach, and they all paid at the window as I did them, so collecting them all after would have taken another half hour.

As far as I know another trad cleaner does them now, so at least they're happy.
Felt a bit guilty dumping them after 10 years.

[vision tech]

I think wfp is to expensive at the moment so i will have to wait untill it comes down in price.

its like plasma and lcd ,it will all become cheaper.

[Nathanael Jones]

I think wfp is to expensive at the moment so i will have to wait untill it comes down in price.

its like plasma and lcd ,it will all become cheaper.

If you DIY it you can get a backpack setup for £300 odd,.. Van mount for £800

If you fall and loose just one weeks wages with a sprained ankle (or worse) WFP will have paid for itself already.

[vision tech]

van mount for £800 what does that include?

[[GQC] Tim]

wfp men trying to justify spending thousands on a system that is only suitable for third floor and higher,

it will never do as good a job as trad,

any wfp man i have spoken to has said it is rubbish,and i have seen the results for myself,

take 20 or 30 houses in one street , are you saying it is easier with wfp than trad?

i have seen plenty of wfp men doing offices but never seen any doing houses,

trad will never disappear.

Operator error, people can't use a wfp properly, that's the sole reason that can't get it up to standard. I do a perfect job, everytime I do houses on the inside, I'm just blown away how good the system works. I could never get that finish with a blade, even if you use zero smears with a blade, and zero spots with wfp, I still prefer the finish of wfp, even with pro liquids like squeegee off, you'll leave a little tiny bit of soap on the windows (GG4 perhaps not) but anyway, wfp get's the glass the cleanest. If anyone does a rubbish job, it's the persons fault, not the system. 

Get your head out of the blade and mop thing, and be open minded, use it yourself, apply the proper technique, and show people you can do a good job with wfp. :

Too expensive? It's an investment, something that you'll earn back quite easily I must say, and it really does not have to be expensive, but a van mount is a must.

[[GQC] Tim]

It does happen.

I used to do a big council retirement home, and three times a year the council did them themselves.

Every resident complained about the poor results and spots.
They loved it when I came around and tidied up with the squeegee.
I had no chance of converting that place to wfp.

As it was I couldn't anyway, as it was far too long for my 100M hose to reach, and they all paid at the window as I did them, so collecting them all after would have taken another half hour.

As far as I know another trad cleaner does them now, so at least they're happy.
Felt a bit guilty dumping them after 10 years.

Squeeky, there you go wrong!

YES YOU CAN!!! DO a good job, and they'll love it! I've had the worst customer ever, calling me brainwashed and everything, went totally mad, all because of the previous wfper, she gave me one chance she said, and she apologised after the clean, and said how wrong she was, she couldn't believe how clean the windows were.

JOB DONE!

[peter holley]

IV noticed that all wfp operators love  being wfp.... this is because ..we make more and are a lot safer....

then you have the trad people who say wfp is no good! but it comes across asif they want it to e no good because then they dont have to spend money investing in new tools... i used to be like that before i made the switch : 3 years ago...

but lets ask a question... do the most succesfull buisnesses in wc use wfp and trad for lower work... or just trad and ladders....? your answer will be wfp and trad....

me personally will never go back to ladders :

[dave0123]

What happens if it totaly goes the other way?

companys start producing small setup's for the home owner a cheap pole like the harris pole small di resin and they change the resin down in the supermarket buy new for less than 10.00?? there is a car wash thing like it filteres the water.

if millions were going to buy it they could do it very cheaply customers dont have to climb a ladder or  use the rubbish poles that are out there now that dont work.

[peter holley]

weve all got lawn mowers and most people have laddres , but people PAY TO HAVE THEIR GRASS CUT AND THEIR WINDOWS CLEANED

WHY ARE TRAD GUYS SO NEGATIVE??? ::)BUT I DO SEE YOUR POINT!! (SORRY FOR shouting)

[Londoner]

What I am noticing is that there are more and more WFP window cleaners appearing around here. It is definitely catching on, and I have more people stop me in the street and ask me to do their windows because I do them WFP. Its wrong to say customers don't like it, they do.

But what you also notice is the difference between the WFP cleaners and the trad cleaners. The WFP outfits have smart new vans, uniforms etc while the trad blokes are much more likely to be driving a beat up old estate car and wearing trackkies.

I am old enough to have started out using leather and scrims, I taught myself to use a squeegie over twenty years ago and went over to WFP two and a half years ago.

WFP is here to stay, it is better in every way, although you do need a bit of know how, and it is more profitable. Those are facts not opinions.

What doesn't get discussed is the way it is changing the industry. People are coming into window cleaning who would never have considered doing trad.

 With the credit crunch a lot of experienced business people are looking at ways of diversifying because their own businesses are failing.
They see window cleaning as a low risk low overhead cash business which is safe from the difficulties affecting their own trades.

An aquaintance of mine (friend of a friend really) was in on the start of weelie bin cleaning. He did very well but now says he is bombed out by new start competition that can only get the work by undercutting.
 These outfits are not owner operated but are almost exclusively run by someone who doesn't want to get his hands dirty and employs a couple of Polish guys to work the truck.
I can see window cleaning going the same way, I really can.

[tradman]

i have heard some rubbish. if wfp is so good, then why do so many of you post so many problems. i have wfp and i use where i HAVE too, but for you lot to say ladders are dead is utter crap. i use all the correct safety accessories on my ladders, i write risk assessments, method statements, all in line with h&s policies of my customers (where required). if you guys seriously think ladders are going to be banned, you're either naive or in denial. what about builders, roofers, aerial men, gutter n soffit men. how long before the punters realise that you guys who change from trad to wfp on there properties realise you are ripping them off, i.e., it took 20 mins with ladders but 4 mins wfp, but price is either same or increased (because you wash there frames...lol). what about the shorter working life of your joints that so many wfpers have, even lumps of gristle appearing where it shouldn't, how long before an employee sues for rss? come on guys keep it real, both will be around as long as each other. but i bet i've had less cancellations(0) due to doing a bad job than any wfper here, i also bet i've picked up more(£150 this month alone) because of a wfper doing a bad job, than a wfper has picked up of a tradman doing a bad job. sure you can wash frames, so can we, but we don't have to scam which so many on here do, just look at the live thread asking ' how many wash frames'

n.b

i'm not anti wfp as i have one, i'm just anti bull5hitters telling punters that ladders are banned coz of h&s directives, that's right i've seen you sites and flyers. i've had you wfpers on my work offering free cleans and trying to get them to sign up to 12 month dd before they realise they been stitched up (which i understand as you have paid a lot of money for your kit and are desperate for a return, any return) never works tho, not on my patch

no offense meant so i hope none taken, therefore i hope replies are not mean or nasty

[peter holley]

i used ladders for 13 yrs and iv been wfp for 3.....ladders are not " banned " , but i do tell the customers that this is the preffered method from h & s point of view.... the local councils where i live require you to use wfp....

i target work suitable for wfp.....and i try to elliminate the use of ladders  2 wc died last week from trajic falls....im sure the loved ones they left behind would welcome the enforcement of wfp .....

i have just moved to a new property , and the developers are still working on other houses...i have only seen them use ladders when it has been necessary... they certainly didnt use them for putting up gutters etc.....

after all we are just cleaning windows, life is precious and it doesnt matter what precausions you take with a ladder, there is always an element of risk involved....

[jaykie]

Ive had custys tell me its good to see the pole system now ladders are banned, ive corrected them on this and told them there not banned and im 100% wfp except for shop fronts and inside jobs, i clean the whole window inc tops and even if theres a air vent as been shown by another window cleaner in my area on how to do it with no runs, ive picked up loads of work from trad cleaners but like ive said before i believe both methods do the same job its all down to the person doing the job, i make sure i price my jobs properly as i dont want to drop them once im full which is something i tell the custy when i price the job, ive picked up loads of houses where previous cleaner was £10 and ive charged £18 but they are well pleased with my work as i get them to look after 1st clean and also get letters with with payment thanking me.

[tradman]

where does the hse actually say they prefer wfp to ladders, nonsense