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Re: SCORPION PORTABLE.
« Reply #20 on: August 19, 2008, 11:51:51 pm »
Now I Know I've been in this game to long when folk's start agreeing with me :-[

Jim,

Try some 2" hose on your machine you'll be amased how the air flow increases and the vac motors last longer!
If you have been reading the the other board the one on the dart side T/M's you will have read they are now useing 4 to the door i.e 2 X 2" hoses from the machine to a splitter and down to 1 X 2" hose to the tool.
With your machines you could use 2X 1 1/2" hose to a splitter and then 2" to the tool

Re: SCORPION PORTABLE.
« Reply #21 on: August 20, 2008, 12:00:24 am »
There use to be a Guy on here a while back that use to use a Ninja off his van with on board tanks, not sure if it was one or 2 he had in seriers but he use to rave about the results he use to get. Can anyone remember who he was? His van was a  half ton Hijet 

Re: SCORPION PORTABLE.
« Reply #22 on: August 20, 2008, 12:03:14 am »
Wasn't it Cleaning co then became a chap in Norfolk after getting harassed by real truckmounters?

Re: SCORPION PORTABLE.
« Reply #23 on: August 20, 2008, 12:04:56 am »
Yes that be the one mike, what ever happened to him

Re: SCORPION PORTABLE.
« Reply #24 on: August 20, 2008, 12:14:34 am »
He tried to sell all his stuff and was off to Spain but it fell thru. Stuff came up again a few months ago.

Jim_77

Re: SCORPION PORTABLE.
« Reply #25 on: August 20, 2008, 12:45:27 am »
Dave - I'll try the 2" hose on it as soon as I get some with a truckmount! :D

carlton care

  • Posts: 429
Re: SCORPION PORTABLE.
« Reply #26 on: August 20, 2008, 08:15:46 am »
Paul Wright is the guy who very successfully ran a ninja and a rhino, or similar in parallel . He's still around

Joe H

Re: SCORPION PORTABLE.
« Reply #27 on: August 20, 2008, 09:25:54 am »
They all seem expensive to me - for 2 (or 3) vac motors, pump, heater (or not), some wiring, all wrapped in a "plastic" shell, some looking slightly better then others.

Yes I know that is very simplistic and R&D costs have to be factored etc.

As to costs - is the Scorpion (£2450 exc hose/wand) anymore expensive then others in its field?

Just been to Hydramaster site - here is a copy/paste...........
Offers maximum “truckmount” like performance with its internal heating system and dual 3-stage vacuums. With adjustable pressure up to 300 psi, this two cord machine combines portability with performance.
..... and that Raptor 230H is priced at £2595 (doesnt say if hose/wand included).

From Ashbys site...........
NINJA (PC1001) with -
Heavy Duty 3 Stage Vacuum System (PC5866) -
1 x 3 stage heavy duty vac motor plus 1 x 3 stage standard vac motor -
(230 inch of water lift / 17 inch of mercury lift).
400 psi Induction Motor pump with Pressure Gauge plus Flow & Pressure Control (PC5372) – Top performance for the fastest, most thorough clean. Heavy duty non-maintenance motor.
Built-in 3 Kw immersion heater with Low Level Safety Cut-Off (PC2007) - 0-60ºC.
No tools / hoses included - choose any tools and hoses required from left hand menu.
............... that price is £1950 (no hose/no wand), and they say its good even with 400' hoses.

Grace HP 5022 (Craftex)
400psi, 2 3-stage vacs. hose/wand/handtool inc  £2495

New Alltec Advance
600psi, 2 3-stage vacs with heater and inc wand/hoses £2350


Its all a lot of money, but then its all relative cause the budget end of TM (say the Prowler) is £5650 (inc hose/wand)

Darren O

  • Posts: 1322
Re: SCORPION PORTABLE.
« Reply #28 on: August 20, 2008, 12:44:57 pm »
You get 50ft of vac and solution hose and wand with the Raptor its great porty when its working.

carlton care

  • Posts: 429
Re: SCORPION PORTABLE.
« Reply #29 on: August 20, 2008, 12:51:30 pm »
Surely it must be possible to put together a powerful, compact, van mounted unit for much less than the U K retail prices ?

To my mind, the Prowler is the closest to the ideal I'm referring to, but a bit underpowered for some, or so they say.

Why does a blower produce more lift than a vacuum, is there a delelopment opportunity for the technically gifted?

I believe Dave Ingram made good progress, can more be done with funding ?

Ed Valentine

  • Posts: 183
Re: SCORPION PORTABLE.
« Reply #30 on: August 20, 2008, 02:13:27 pm »
 I truly thank everyone  who has responsibly commented, and even to those who have commented on their initial "impression" of a different kind of machine that has impressed their purchasers/Operators and especially their customers with the results with which they could only have dreamed about. I also understand that several kind individuals have Petrol TM's and are very proud of them.
 
Personally speaking, (I started off as a Professional Cleaner myself and as we grew demanded and required certain performance levels)my goal when we started business in 1972, was to innovate and to provide efficiency. And those two elements are what made us most successful then, as well as the thousands of Operators around the world, now.

The truth of the matter is simple:  after the initial hello's, small talk, and hand shakes, RESULTS are the only thing that will matter and determine whether or not one keeps the customer and continues to builds the business. And it also determines whether there ever will be a tomorrow.
 
In Hollywood, there are alot of beautiful looking actors ;however, many times once you look at what's under the hood, there's not much substance there. Likewise, I know of a few who are very contrary to this, and therefore, those are the Movies that are always unique , talked about, and really deliver RESULTS. PERFORMANCE.
 
Lets be very honest here though when it comes to cosmetics and "our" opinion of such. It's what you have been accustomed to and since most products in every Industry "sort-of" looks like everyone elses, that is easy to understand. However, to say that something looks; "Ugly" is a term I normally would never use and IMHO is a pretty harsh statement and seems more of a jab than anything else.
 
Not everyone likes Tea and Crumpets; or Ford or a Chevy. Not everyone likes to wear sandels with high black socks either! And, we could all agree that there are many very good Petro TM's out there that really don't have the cosmetic appeal either---but they perform.

We have had said manytimes in conversations/e-mails that the SCORPION-3 looked good by the Operator, and even complimented by their customer(s), And, yes, we have had a few state that they did not care for the design. However, these particular individuals never purchased the machine and gave it a chance over the long haul to perform or impress them with RESULTS in different situations. These people have only chosen their words by looks.
 
Yes, I believe that whenever anything looks different (designed to be INDUSTRIAL for good reason) than what most are accustomed to in a generic sense, that the initial impression may be negative by human nature-----by the Operator who makes this generic comparison; NOT the customer who instead, only sees and cares about RESULTS. However, I must admit that we are extremely pleased by the performance  and testimonials of the the Operators-------many who compare it to their TM's and these are individuals of high character and experience. (BTW, this does not mean that it is as powerful as their TM's however, it indicates that it cleans as well in terms of customer satisfaction, etc..)
 
I can also state honestly, that many of our competitors--world wide---have taken off on many, many of our innovations in the past by cloning them. And, that's just the way it is. But it also demonstrates a good reason why.
There are engineers who ride in the front of the train; while others ride in the caboose.

But, Gentlemen, I have learned several things that may also relate to your end as well, and I will state it below only because it should be ---extremely---important to each and everyone of us:
 

"Years of Field testing "----is certainly the key and major ingredient of customer satisfaction because the machine will perform well above the generics. In regards to noise levels, I can't see how it is more noisey other than the fact that it IS MORE powerful. However, we are one of the only ones who uses alot of exhaust duct work which not only helps keep the system cooler, it also quiets it down. We also have inexpensive mufflers available btw.
 

Gentlemen, most every machine built out there will work when you flip the switch. Some better than others. And then there are those perhaps, that will perform much beyond your expectations and save you alot of sweat to. Remember there's more to the comfort of a great pair of shoes than just the cheap polish!
 
"beauty is more than skin deep to!" 8)
 
I sincerely Thank you all; :)
The very best;
ED Valentine
cross-american corp.

garyj

Re: SCORPION PORTABLE.
« Reply #31 on: August 20, 2008, 03:04:38 pm »
Hello Ed, always have enjoyed your posts and I am not the best person to reply to this.

When I first joined this forum the machine that was most talked about for shear performance was the Recoil, it was at least twice as powerful as anything on the market, but I still remember my disappointment at actually seeing one.

I will admit I am shallow, and a lot of people are whether they are aware of it or not, our customers are too. They judge us on what we look like when we turn up, they judge our accents, our vans and equipment because as we are strangers they don't have anything else to go on.
Obviously the last piece in the jigsaw and the last thing the customer actually sees is our machine, they don't know one machine from the other but we as carpet cleaners have to feel good about what we are using and many people on here are very proud of their machines, some have posted photos, they care and love them like part of the family  ;).

I am in the market for a new machine ( again ) and looking at Joe's post one leaps out for price, spec,  and for me looks. If I have the spare money I will go for the petrol portable, again because it looks so good.

I choose my carpet cleaning machines like I choose my woman I'm afraid, if it looks really good and performs ok then that will do, far better than an ugly one, after all you have to spend hours a day looking at it ( will also admit that every relationship I have ever had has failed, so perhaps it is my thinking that is wrong :-\)

clinton

Re: SCORPION PORTABLE.
« Reply #32 on: August 20, 2008, 03:34:19 pm »
Garryj

So taking it you like the prowler then?

Me too

Like the idea of it being portable when and if you caint get complete access.

As joe posted there arnt really that much dif in spec and the one that looks dif to me is the alltec with its design and colours..

garyj

Re: SCORPION PORTABLE.
« Reply #33 on: August 20, 2008, 03:57:14 pm »
Yes, I love the look of it. Can you remember when someone bought one ( Steve Gunn I think ) and posted a pic and the reply was it looked like something from Bob The Builder ;D ? That was funny because we could all see it was one hell of a good looking machine.

Shaun Ashmores recent photo = WOW, what a gorgeous bit of kit ( the machine, not him  :P).

I have owned a Alltec Pro Plus, nice looking machine but it is a bit 80s, but that's ok because so I'm I :-X.

I'm sorry if Ed feels the term ugly is a jab, it isn't, it just is.

For me looks are important, does anyone know when the Scorpion/ Recoil was designed? Looking at machines around now we could all take an educated guess into when they were first designed and what the designer had on when he first drew it, and probably take a wild stab at what car he was driving at the time  :)

Joe H

Re: SCORPION PORTABLE.
« Reply #34 on: August 20, 2008, 04:20:38 pm »
I think Ed could tell us when it was designed  ;)

As for comparing a good looking woman to a carpet cleaning machine.....

I know many good looking women who cant cook very well, cant sew very well, cant hold a conversation very well etc etc.....as Ed said "beauty is more then skin deep".
Beneath the "wraps" of the Scorpion is a very capable machine............. and none of my customers have knocked its looks, just praised its cleaning ability.




Glynn

  • Posts: 1129
Re: SCORPION PORTABLE.
« Reply #35 on: August 20, 2008, 04:21:49 pm »
I can't believe peole buy portables for this amount when you can get such as a HM Spitfire 3.2 with waste tank, hoses and a wand Fitted for about £6 - 7 K.
This is a proper Truckmount and not something parading as one.
Regards
Glynn

garyj

Re: SCORPION PORTABLE.
« Reply #36 on: August 20, 2008, 04:36:35 pm »
I think Ed could tell us when it was designed  ;)

As for comparing a good looking woman to a carpet cleaning machine.....

I know many good looking women who cant cook very well, cant sew very well, cant hold a conversation very well etc etc.....as Ed said "beauty is more then skin deep".
Beneath the "wraps" of the Scorpion is a very capable machine............. and none of my customers have knocked its looks, just praised its cleaning ability.

Exactly Joe, but unfortunately most blokes go for looks over substance. My latest girlfriend is not around for her cooking, and I don't think she is with me for my intelligent conversation and wit  :-\.

It s a fact that people go for packaging, that is why so many people try to get their websites looking good.


richie

  • Posts: 1179
Re: SCORPION PORTABLE.
« Reply #37 on: August 20, 2008, 04:57:33 pm »
After seeing & using the Scorpion yesterday my thoughts were.....Ugly looking machine but is high powered for a electric machine.  I didnt get chance to have a good look inside it but the fact that it has 3 vac exhausts tells me that alot of thought went into the design.  Looks are a BIG factor in most things therefore i think its a shame that LOOKS design didnt come into the outer shell of the machine.

Personally i would not pay £2000 - £4000 for a electric machine.  I would sooner buy a petrol/diesel/LPG TM.  Many cleaners have had the chance to buy a TM but have opted for a porty,  that is their choice.  People buy equipment in ANY trade that suits them & there business,  mostly the tools/equipment they buy is just what they wanted.  My friend that bought his Scorpion recently required a high performance porty for certain premises he cleans & that is what he got.  For him the Scorpion will be a good asset.  The Scorpion has taken the place of his Eclipse 500psi porty.

Richie.

gwrightson

  • Posts: 3617
Re: SCORPION PORTABLE.
« Reply #38 on: August 20, 2008, 07:04:15 pm »
I Had a discussion a few months ago with a fellow c/c who would not hear a thing against the scorpion,

he had been brainwashed, he didnt even have one........ although at the time he did tell me he had bought one of ebay ;D 
His argument was it out performs any truckmount ;D  ;D  ;D   I am been serious here he was convinced of it, I mentioned no heat...... his reply you dont need heat , but you can buy a heater for it and a vac booster if you want.
Now I know this guy had been using an altec, and I believe was about to buy a scorpion. I wonder why I asked myself was he so convinced of the capabilities of the scorpion against a t/m .
Well the franchise he was with had just done a deal with ,   I wonder  who ;) !!!!   
No wonder!!

Joe, I sometimes wonder if you have fallen for the same speel ;) No I,m not knocking the scorpion for its performance, but the build and price , Yes I am , I even know a c/c who bought one used a couple of times and now gathering dust in his garage, returned to his Ninja 

As for the noise, well a cfr had 500psi and that certainly aint noisy :P

Geoff
who ever said dont knock before u try ,i never tried dog crap but i know i wouldnt like  haha

Andrew Briscoe

  • Posts: 1311
Re: SCORPION PORTABLE.
« Reply #39 on: August 20, 2008, 07:08:25 pm »
I recently purchased a recoil, same spec as scorpion except just a 300 psi pump.

Is it noisy..... yes (customers say "that must be powerfull")
Is the pump noisy.....yes  (same as the one in my 500psi cfr)
Is it ugly.......YES (but i use it for work, dont damn it)
Is it a big tool to use......up against a trucmounters tool No,(having a big tool is ok if you know what your doing with it...Ask any woman) :-X
Will it out perform a truckmount...... No, but i can add my booster vac and upgrade the pump and have a bit more power
Would i buy 2 ninja's and hook them together and upgrade to 2 " hose...... why spend twice as much

Would i buy a truckmount......Yes... unfortunately population of my area is 24 per Km2  the lowest in country

in hindsight  i got the best machine (porty) available.. cost me £900 got hoses lance and a booster with it for that money and inline heater

Andrew