[angela stone]

hi guys,

I have just taken on a new member of staff.  She is an older lady who has been cleaning for years, I thought she was brilliant at the interview and so I gave her more hours than I really wanted to give one person cos I didn't want her to go elsewhere.

Anyway she has worked 2 weeks and I can't believe how dire she is!! I have told her numerous times which products we use for which jobs but yet she keeps using the wrong ones still.  She misses loads out - on one shower she cleaned the tiles and the screen but not the tray.  This woman's been cleaning for about 20 years!  After that, I showed her how to do a whole bathroom again.  One hour after this she does a shower and the customer complained about the quality of it the following week (couldn't check that one as the cust had already gone in the bathroom).
She refuses to wear her glasses as they give her head ache so I'm sure when she vacuums she can't see all the bits she has left behind. 

I go on holiday at the end of this month and I would need her to do some shifts on her own, but I daren't put her in on her own! 

On top of that she had a holiday booked for all this week, so of course I said she could have the time off, she phoned in sick the day before and dropped me right in the ****!


What would you do?
Generally how long does it take your staff to get up to speed?  My other 2 members of staff are students, they knew what they were doing within the first week.  This woman's meant to be a pro!!

Your thoughts would be appreciated.

ange

[Pristine Clean]

Well now you said dhe was god at the interview?

So that implies she has not been with you that long! If she does not get up to scratch with in a reasonable amount of time (2 weeks) you can shorten it. I would sack her... Providing she has only been with you less than a year.

You can sack any member of staff with immediate effect providing its less than 1 year. (No reason has to be given)

she will cost you too much and you will lose customers... and if you lose customers you will get a bad name... bad news spreads faster than good news I am afraid to say.

put an advert back out for a new member to join you. Just because they are older does not make them any better at cleaning... what did she do before any proof that she actually cleaned? Did you obtain any references of actual work related?

Dave

[steve_doyle]

2 weeks, so your probably seeing her at her best!!!!!

"its not working out, goodbye"


no point messing about.
steve

[KLEEN-ZONE]

Sack her before she ruins your business! Put new staff on a probationary period, then if they are not up to expectations get rid.
 
Steve

[Robert Parry]

Angela,

Although the advice you have so far been given is stricly "correct", this sort of attitude will not guarantee you will not have to face a tribunal, before starting any new member of staff it is wise to follow these steps:

1. After deciding to offer the person a position, put the offer in writing, containing basic information about hours, pay etc and ensure that you explain that continued employment is subject to recieving satisfactory references, and the succesful completion of a 3 month probationary period.

2. Issue your new staff member with a legal contract of employment before they start their first shift, spend sometime with them going through it with them to ensure that they understand it, and answer any questions that they may have, have two copies of the contract, you sign both, as does your new staff member.

3. Ensure that you issue your new employee with the required, H & S information, Risk Assessments, Emergency Procedures etc, PPE etc.etc.

4. Give them copies of your training manual, employee handbook etc.

5. If your training consists of "on the job training" ensure that you actually complete the training programme, document this, and any short comings that need to be addressed, and realistic timescales for improvements to be made.

Only after all the above procedures have been followed, would I be 100% confident that I have complied with all the rules and regualations.

You also mentioned that your new staff member impressed you at interview stage, you should bear in mind that it is very easy to talk the talk, but much more difficult to walk the walk, references, or lack of, would give yet another clue to the actual abilities of any prospective new staff member.

Regards Rob

[Pristine Clean]

Good advice as usual Robert,

I assumed that she would have given a contract etc.

But by law there should be no court case as she has been with her less than a year.

So no actual rights have been violated

[angela stone]

thanks guys for the replies.

She does have a contract and it lists her pay / hours etc.  I have a disciplinary procedure in there - contract was basically off the business link website using an interactive tool.  However, I have stupidly omitted the 3 month probationary period.  In truth I thought I had it in there, but when I looked back when all this came to light I realised that I hadn't got it in!
Anyway when she comes back off holiday, I will run  back through all the training again and explain that I am not happy with certain aspects and that I want to see an improvement over the following week.

I didn't realise the thing about having a year to finish someone without any reason,  don't I have to have something written in the contract to make that so?

Ange

[Dean Aspects]

When i employed i had a staff member that signed off with stress (workshy) so i phoned up ACAS to ask their advise they said as it was less thn a year and i was a small business they would not even look at a case against me as they realise how hard it is too run a small business they look at things with a bit of common sense give them a ring to see as its a slightly different case but i see no problem in just getting rid

[suffolkclean]

Just read your comments on it not being a problem if shes worked for you less than a year, that's not what we've experienced.
Sacked a cleaner worked less than part-time hours for 8/9 months. She sent treatening letters saying we owed her a weeks wages (notice) we ignored it, then we got a letter for a tribunal hearing in a few months time. Had to pay her or the costs would of been huge for solicitors, court costs etc.
You have to be so careful when taking people on they are very quick to try and get compensation.

We went down the agency route paid £8 an hour for an agency worker, if she's not good they give you someone else then at the end of 12 weeks contract you can employ her if you want. Perfect way to find the right person without you employing them straight away.

[Robert Parry]

Suffolkclean,

Very bad luck, just because the information is posted on here does not mean that it is correct, or for that matter, any other website, including government ones! You might think a phone call to the right government department would be sufficient, it is not!

The only way to ensure that you get any employment issue sorted properly is to follow all the rules, my previous post above should help.

Regards,

Rob

[kelly acs]

I have this problem often, you are runnin g a business not a charity. If as you have said you have given this lady ample training in what you expect and she has chosen to ignore your advice get rid of her asap before you loose customers!

[cml]

After 1 month employment an employee is entitled to 1 weeks notice of termination.  If this is not given an action can be brought against the employer.  This is a statutory requirement and they should be paid for that week.  There are however exceptions but most employers will fall under the statutory requirements.  Employees are also entitled to be paid for that week so bear this in mind whether they work their last week or by agreement with employer and employee to pay this in lieu of having to work their last week.

So albeit you  (employer) may not have to give a written statement of as to why you have terminated their employment a notice and 1weeks pay must be carried out.  After a year it is the right of the employee to receive a written statement from their employer as to why their employment has been terminated. 

It is best for employers to seek advice before action to ensure they comply with correct and fair procedures to avoid employment tribunal claims

[angela stone]

Problem solved!

She came back to work on monday after her week's holiday and I spent the whole shift following her around - picking up on anything that she had missed.  Explaining how I wanting things doing as well.

Did pretty much the same on wednesday. 

No sign of her on Thursday.  she decided not to show on the busiest day. Myself and another member of staff had to work nearly 12 hours each straight to finish all our jobs plus a one off that we had on.

Again no sign on Friday.

To be honest, we were going to have words on friday and I think that she knew.

I am going to struggle to find staff with the same standards as me, me thinks. 

[myvanwi]

We have the same problem with people who we employ not having the same standards as us. We have had to accept {after two years of trying to find suitable staff} that no-one is going to work as hard or worry about customer service as we are. This means that we are constantly going over and over the same ground with staff which is extremely wearing. It was alot easier in a lot of ways when we just did the work ourselves. If you find a way of attracting clones of business owners to work as cleaners please let me know.

[Collybolly]

We took over a volume contract (that had previously been fraught with problems) and found some of the staff had been there 10...15...years.

Unfortunately they were doing things or rather, not doing things "because we've always done it like that".

It doesn't matter with some people how many times you show them something they will always revert back to, "the way they've always done it".

It drives me up the wall. However, we need these people. Without cleaners the job doesn't get done and we don't have a business.

Some of them have you over a barrel and know it.

Like the manager who told us at 11pm the night before the morning we flew on holiday, that he would not be able to travel to run a contract that week as his car tax had run out!! What can you do?

[angela stone]

I have one member of staff who does work like me.  She has worked for me for just over a year, and she is fantastic. 

Unfortunately for me she starts a full time job as a teaching assistant in september so can only do a couple of hours a week and school holidays for me.  But she is proof that they are out there.

She enjoys doing a job well and customers been appreciative of that.  She wants extra money so does all the hours I can send her way.  She worked nearly 12 hours the other day and didn't complain at all! She doesn't see it as a just a cleaning job, she sees it as my business and respects the fact that she is part of the success.  I need to clone her!

My predicament now is that my customers expect perfection as thats what we have been giving them and I will keep going through staff until I find the one 

Enjoy the rest of the weekend folks, before the rampage starts again tomorrow

Ange