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dandandan

  • Posts: 424
amtico floor cleaning
« on: July 11, 2008, 12:43:59 pm »
Does anyone clean amtico flooring?Can you buy the cleaning product they sell to strip clean and seal at trade prices in larger quantities than they sell in the showrooms?Is there a course you can take to learn to do it professionally?Thanks Dan

Mike Roper

  • Posts: 326
Re: amtico floor cleaning
« Reply #1 on: July 11, 2008, 03:37:40 pm »
Just posted on general cleaning.
Mike

colin fitch

  • Posts: 148
Re: amtico floor cleaning
« Reply #2 on: July 11, 2008, 07:21:37 pm »
Hi dandandan,

yes/yes/yes,
amtico products are made by johnsons [you can purhase in 5ltrs containers]

colin.

Jim_77

Re: amtico floor cleaning
« Reply #3 on: July 11, 2008, 07:31:31 pm »
You can "clean" it with a J-cloth and a bowl of soapy water if you want!

You can "maintain" it using several professional techniques, depending on what the customer wants, what specific situation it's in etc.  I don't know of any dedicated courses, but resilient floor maintenance is covered on some hard floor training.

For domestic work, you'll either be working on a floor in relatively good nick that the customer wants to keep on top of, in which case it's a doddle.  Or you'll be looking at a floor that's covered in scratches and scuffs, which collect the crud so it looks like the scratches are black.  Get something pointy and scrape this crud out and show it to the customer!

It's very rare in my experience that Amtico/Karndean etc gets cared for properly from day 1.  Most customers seem to think you just put it down and that's it, ignore it forever :(  Fitters/suppliers are as much to blame for being ignorant - they supply it, they should be able to at least advise that flooring needs maintenance.  But I suppose they don't, because they fear that the customer will perceive the flooring as being more expensive.

Anyway, I'll quit griping...

The best way to care for Amtico is by keeping up a good level of protection, provided by a sealer (Amtico call this their "dressing").  Amtico do come out with some guff about the top layer of some of their ranges being a "wearing layer" and it doesn't need anything on it.  Balls!  Once it's scratched, it's scratched, full stop.  Let the sealer take the stick, and keep it maintained to keep the floor looking great and easier to clean (those are the key benefits to sell this work with).

The first time you work on any vinyl tile floor you should give it a real good seeing to with a stripping solution, just in case it has any sort of sealer on the surface.  Use nothing coarser than a blue pad, get it nice and wet and let it dwell but NOT DRY OUT.  Keep the solution moving around, only work in 10-15m² areas, maybe a bit more if it's a big open space.

Rinse off thoroughly with extraction equipment, with citric acid or something to provide similar acidity in the rinse water.  Stripping products are moderately high pH - You need to make sure you bring your pH back to around neutral, otherwise you'll affect the sealer when it gets applied, it'll go milky.

You need to dry a small area of floor before wetting it with a drop of de-ionised water and applying your testing paper.  Don't test it with the acid rinse water from the machine, you'll get a false reading!  You can buy a little bottle of DI water and keep it on your van, doesn't take up much room.

After you've done a few of these jobs, as long as you don't change your products or methods, the pH testing will be a formality, you'll know it's right before you even check it.

So, clean floor, neutral pH, totally dry - give it 3 or 4 coats of proper sealer, not the overpriced crap that Amtico sell.  Their stuff must be between 15 and 20% solids, pro products for this purpose should be around 25%.

Advise your customer several things (if you can stop them from grinning at their "new floor" and telling you how wonderful you are):

1)  This isn't a 'permanent' coating, it is a "sacrificial layer" that wears down.  It will need a clean every 6-12 months and another coat of sealer applying.  You can do this 2 or 3 times before you'll need to strip it all off and start again.

2) Get proper 2-part entrance matting (rough outside, absorbent inside), because...

3) ...Sand and grit will literally grind the sealer away underfoot - vacuum regularly, preferably with a cylinder vac with floor tool, rather than an upright.

4) Don't use Flash or other high pH floor cleaners (test their under-the-sink floor cleaner with your pH paper!), and definitely not bleach!  They need to use a neutral pH cleaner, you can source some really cheap pro products, should only cost you a few quid for 5 litres.  I supply every customer with this for "free" (i.e. priced in to job ;))


For small domestic areas you should be looking at a couple of hundred quid for about a half-day strip/reseal job, but make the maintenance trips more economical for them otherwise they'll not go for it.  My maintenance trips are about 60% of the full whack, providing it hasn't started wearing away.

Don't price too low for Amtico - This stuff costs a bomb to replace, remember!

Any more info needed just gimme a shout :)

Len Gribble

  • Posts: 5106
Re: amtico floor cleaning
« Reply #4 on: July 11, 2008, 08:08:56 pm »
Take care on using any stripper it can/will take paint off skirting boards


Think the customer gets a guarantee card or some thing

(If your Amtico floor should wear-out within 20 years of normal foot traffic, it will be replaced free of charge! Wear-out means the removal of pattern and colour from the floor. To qualify, the floor must have been professionally installed, regularly maintained and the registration form completed.)

Think that you may need a badge to validate warranty, ??? will check with mate who supplies and lays this. (He never has asked me on this side of his business I only get the cc even though I’ve got scrubber driers)


Len
Always bear in mind that your own resolution to succeed is more important than any other. (Sidcup Kent)

Mike Roper

  • Posts: 326
Re: amtico floor cleaning
« Reply #5 on: July 11, 2008, 10:50:40 pm »
Cracking reply Jim !
Did my first amtico clean/ polish this week for existing cc customer and went really well so am looking at adding this service.
Your advice is spot on and highlights the benefits of these forums and the generousity of collegues willing to share their knowledge and experience, thanks.
Mike

Jim_77

Re: amtico floor cleaning
« Reply #6 on: July 12, 2008, 12:04:18 am »
No problemo :)

As I said, any more info needed just shout.  I'm not what you'd call an authority on Amtico but I've worked with a fair bit of it and I'm willing to share my experiences :)

Mike Roper

  • Posts: 326
Re: amtico floor cleaning
« Reply #7 on: July 12, 2008, 12:54:31 pm »
Jim,
On the floor I just did they had been careless decorating without dust sheets so there was splats and speckles of paint.
I didnt want to go coarser than a green pad which didnt take it off so had to use a scraper which did the job but was slow.
Any suggestions for future reference ?
Mike

Jim_77

Re: amtico floor cleaning
« Reply #8 on: July 12, 2008, 01:42:35 pm »
You need to look at the other parts of the CHAT (or TACT) equation.  The mechanical action is no good if you haven't softened the substance for mechanical removal.

A Floor stripper used hot and strong should soften most paint up to a point where you can remove it, if not with a blue pad then up to the green like you've used or even a black pad.  If the overall condition of the surface is very free from scratches, I'd do this by hand with the little centre part of the pad.  Quite often where a floor has been disrespected like this, its overall condition isn't fantastic and therefore giving it a good firm scrub with a black pad isn't really likely to detract from its appearance too much.  On an otherwise good condition floor, you just need to be a little more careful and bear in mind that nothing coarser than blue is recommended to avoid scratching the surface.

I've not tried Nitromors on Amtico before, but it may do the trick... you'd need to test an inconspicuous area by leaving some on it for a good 10 minutes or so, then rinse it off and see what it looks like visually.  Structurally, test by poking/scraping at the vinyl quite firmly to see if it's been affected.

To be honest, wherever I've encountered stubborn blobs of paint on Amtico I've normally used a Stanley scraper (the ones that hold a Stanley knife blade) and that's been good enough.

PaulKing

  • Posts: 1626
Re: amtico floor cleaning
« Reply #9 on: July 12, 2008, 08:53:53 pm »
amtico will take a black pad no problem
www.revitaclean.com  established 1968 in Newcastle Upon Tyne

Len Gribble

  • Posts: 5106
Re: amtico floor cleaning
« Reply #10 on: July 12, 2008, 09:39:06 pm »
Have reservation on hot water (it dries to quick) boiling a no no so I have been told, if they can get out of claim they will even down to the glue used.

Len
Always bear in mind that your own resolution to succeed is more important than any other. (Sidcup Kent)

Jim_77

Re: amtico floor cleaning
« Reply #11 on: July 12, 2008, 11:18:06 pm »
amtico will take a black pad no problem
You could strip most Amtico floors without a pad at all to be honest, using the correct stripper in the proper way.  Why take the risk?

Sledgehammers & nuts etc....

The attached pic is a commercial reception area, that was a black pad plus rocket fuel job, most domestics are very light duty in comparison.

Ian Rochester

  • Posts: 2588
Re: amtico floor cleaning
« Reply #12 on: July 13, 2008, 08:35:57 pm »
We use the Johnsons Stripper at 1:5 dilution and as Jim says generally just mopping in on and leaving for a few minutes before extracting will be suffice to take it back to it's base layer. 

 

Len Gribble

  • Posts: 5106
Re: amtico floor cleaning
« Reply #13 on: July 13, 2008, 08:49:30 pm »
Ian

Had a few problems with their striper would not remove there mop & shine. It’s not what it used to be.

Len
Always bear in mind that your own resolution to succeed is more important than any other. (Sidcup Kent)

dandandan

  • Posts: 424
Re: amtico floor cleaning
« Reply #14 on: July 13, 2008, 10:18:04 pm »
Thanks everyone,what equipment do i need and is there a web site for products,what extraction equipment do you use jim?I want to get full rig out and practice on my own floors which are amtico.In simple terms is this right?

mop stripper on and buff over with machine
extract stripper and clean floor getting it ph balanced
mop 3 layers of sealer over it to get shiney polish back

Is this the method for all laminate floors?Do you do corners etc with a rag and pad?

Do you use different mops, a mop for stripper,one for cleaning and one for sealer.

Thanks for that reply jim,you really know your stuff,what area do you work in?I`m in Liverpool.

Thanks every one anyway,hello clint hope your doing ok and keeping busy.

Jim_77

Re: amtico floor cleaning
« Reply #15 on: July 14, 2008, 02:24:01 am »
I'm in sunny Kettering - a bit far from you, Dan  :-*

h ttp://www.express-cleaning-supplies.co.uk/oos/floorcare/

From the sponsors of this forum, Cleansmart Supplies, there is a stripper and several options for sealer (sealer is confusingly also referred to as "polish", "wax" or "finish" depending on who's naming it.)

Basically it's all the same thing, but some are better than others.  The most telling thing about this type of product is the % solids it contains, which should be around the 20-25% mark for most applications.

Higher solids = thicker layer per application = more durable.

They don't do citric acid by the look of it.   There are plenty of suppliers around.


I'll find something i wrote about floors a while ago and copy/paste it in here tomorrow for you ;)

Doug Holloway

  • Posts: 3917
Re: amtico floor cleaning
« Reply #16 on: July 14, 2008, 07:56:40 am »
Hi Guys

I am no hard floor cleaning expert bit I do know an acrylic resin when I see one !

The white, 'milky' polishes are acrylic resins, which dry to leave an acrylic film, tough, good UV resistance etc.

The 25 %w/w thing basically relates to the amount of acrylic polymer as a percentage, the rest being water.

So the higher figure the more polymer you are buying.

When we used these products as adhesives our w/w was about 50%, but this would be too viscous for hard floors.

Cheers

Doug

Jim_77

Re: amtico floor cleaning
« Reply #17 on: July 14, 2008, 04:45:03 pm »
To continue from this morning….

Please don't try to do this with LAMINATE flooring!  Don't get laminate flooring any more than slightly damp, EVER.  TBH there isn't much of a market for us with laminate, seems as you can't do a lot with it other than damp mop it.

Yes, pop the centre out of a pad and use it by hand on the corners.

OK so I picked some bits up from previous ramblings, and added to them a little….

Your ideal setup for domestic or small/medium commercial is as follows:

> 15" rotary machine with solution tank (tank-feed the stripper, it's so much easier)

> Black pads (heavy approach on less-than-perfect floors)

> Blue pads (for good condition floors)

> Brush block (good when minimal scrubbing is required, it simply agitates the stripper and doesn't splatter as much as with pads when tank-feeding)

> Extraction machine, any old machine as long as it's up to cleaning carpets it'll do floors.

> Hard floor wand or carpet wand with a glide (you'll need the hard floor wand on uneven surfaces like slate flagstones and some tiles)
> A few airmovers or fans (I use honeywell axial fans, from RGK cleaning supplies)

> A radiator brush.  You'll understand why you need one of these the first time you clean a floor and then blast all the fluff out from behind a radiator, depositing it on your freshly cleaned floor or worse still on your first coat of sealer.

> A lambswool applicator for your sealer (mops are crap, they can leave drag marks if used too dry, or just make hard work of it if used too wet.)  You can also get auto-feed applicators, but these are only justified on bigger jobs like sports hall floors etc.

> A large gardener's seed tray (big green ones from focus, about £7.50) with a strip of wood glued along one of the shorter ends underneath.  This is to put your sealer in, the wood tilts the tray so you have a dry end to pad out excess sealer otherwise it drips if you just dunk the applicator without removing the excess.

> Plastic shoe covers (wear at least 2 pairs when walking on your stripped or sealed surface)

For uneven surfaces and tiles with recessed grout joints, a lambswool pad is annoying because it squeezes out the sealer into the grout lines and low spots, leaving a puddle which means you have to spread it out, taking up a lot of extra time.  To get around this I've adapted a yard brush with a screw-in handle (cost a few quid from B&Q) by pulling out all the brush bristles, then buying a couple of 5" emulsion paint brushes (type with natural hair, they smell like a stinky pig when you get them wet).  I sawed the handles off the emulsion brushes level with the metal bit, then screwed them into the de-bristled brush head.  Then i sawed off the excess wood from the brush head with a jigsaw.  Sounds like a load of hassle but when you do a lot of uneven slate & flagstones it makes a lot of sense!  I use a 10” roller tray with this, the deep type of tray – works perfectly.


Method:

Ventilate the area, if poss set up airmovers on shelves/desks anywhere but standing on the floor.  Get the crud out from behind the rads with the rad brush.  Vacuum up all the fluff and also entire floor (you don't want to be grinding grit around on top of the floor).  Run the airmovers to check no more crud flying round, then turn off until drying the floor.

Use appropriate dilution of stripper, you don't always need it like rocket fuel and the stronger it is the quicker it will dry out, causing problems.

Feed solution from tank of rotary (highly recommended over mopping), start at the furthest point and work back.  Wet up an area of 10-20 m² at a time, don't let it dry but if it does wet it up with more stripper and scrub it.  You discover dried stripper patches after you've rinsed and the floor has dried.  Don't leave them, scrub & rinse them otherwise they'll really show up and the job will look pants.

After 5-10 mins dwell, rinse off (remember pH).  Floors need a different technique from carpets.  You should push the wand forwards with the trigger pulled, which will extract slurry first and then introduce your rinse to the floor, then pull backwards over the same area with the trigger pulled.  You can do dry passes as necessary.    There's no point pulling backwards over the slurry first time, as you'll just be adding water to it and making slightly diluted slurry and picking it up without rinsing the floor properly.

Don't be shy with rinsing, give it a real good rinse off, you should use just as much if not more water as with the same sized area of carpet.

Air movers on, mop up puddles with a towel.

When dry apply at least 3, preferably 4 coats of sealer.  Don't be stingy with it, but it must be applied evenly without leaving puddles.  You'll get the hang of it pretty quickly.  With adequate temp. and ventilation you should be able to do a coat every 30-40 mins, maybe more often, just check the surface isn't tacky before you start again.


Jim_77

Re: amtico floor cleaning
« Reply #18 on: July 14, 2008, 04:48:04 pm »
Oh and I forgot the last step: have a mop in your hand when the customer sees the floor, cos they'll start dribbling over your magnificent work :)

dandandan

  • Posts: 424
Re: amtico floor cleaning
« Reply #19 on: July 14, 2008, 07:41:25 pm »
Thanks Jim,I`ll start revising your paper tonight,ha ha,it takes me about 5 reds to absorb it,get back to you soon,cheers,Dan