[David Slater]

This is just a sample pic I pulled off the web to illustrate what I mean.

Presuming you were using a wfp, how would you clean those doors behind the balconies?

[cherubs cleaning]

they can not be done buy wfp

ladders



jerry

[ronnie paton]

they are the responsibility of the tennant or owner this would be put in the terms and condiyions from the management company, i have a few like this.

[David Slater]

they are the responsibility of the tennant or owner this would be put in the terms and condiyions from the management company, i have a few like this.

So you clean all the others and make sure the management company knows that you are unable to clean those?

Jerry, I'm not sure I follow when you say 'use ladders'. Do you mean go up the ladder and hop over the balcony?....seems a bit dangerous to me.

[ronnie paton]

yes thats correct david

[mr D]

they are the responsibility of the tennant or owner this would be put in the terms and condiyions from the management company, i have a few like this.

So you clean all the others and make sure the management company knows that you are unable to clean those?

Jerry, I'm not sure I follow when you say 'use ladders'. Do you mean go up the ladder and hop over the balcony?....seems a bit dangerous to me.

only dangerous if your imcompertant in which case you shouldnt be cleaning windows. put the top of the ladder in the internal corners and it WILL NOT go anywhere. if you hold the ladder using the 3 points of contact rule theres no way you will fall off unless you pass out or have tourets syndrome.

dave can i ask if you cleaned windows trad b4 going on the pole?

it amazes me that w/c are so against climbing ladders. i can understand not doing so because new guidlines make if eayser not to and even that its fasted to use a pole but to see them as dangourous just goes against logik to me.

[mr D]

sorry that lst post came across as a little rude, it wasnt ment to be David just the was i phrased it. i'msure your not imcompertant.

[ronnie paton]

they are dangerous fallin at the height would be very serious, would you go  up in a cherry picker that high wiv out a full harness???

do be stupid dont get the ladders up there how many people do you think have said simalar to mr d and then one unfortunate day they have fell and seriously injured them selves???

Im not saying never use ladders but that height would be stupid, the owner can walk out of the patio and clean them simple wiv out any risk at all!!!!!!

[mr D]

i give in this site is a joke! bye

[David Slater]

sorry that lst post came across as a little rude, it wasnt ment to be David just the was i phrased it. i'msure your not imcompertant.

No problem Mr D 

I should probably have explained a little further - all the H&S and Risk Assessment stuff I've been reading would suggest that hopping over the balcony would be a serious risk to you, members of the public and site workers/staff.
Whether it is actually possible to 'hop over' is another kettle of fish.

I was wondering how you guys tackle this sort of problem (those balconies). Obviously you wouldnt be able to do a risk assessment and write "I will hop over the balcony off ladders". 

But as you'd most likely be dealing directly with a Building Management company then they're going to want a written H&S risk assessment.

Granted, the pic I have used is a relatively low block. I saw some pictures of Jeff Brimble doing an 85ft building with wfp....I doubt very much ANYBODY would want to hop over a balcony at those sort of heights! 

[Moderator David@stives]

In my experience they would at least want you to climb on to the 2nd floor balconies by ladder

[David Slater]

In my experience they would at least want you to climb on to the 2nd floor balconies by ladder

Dave,

Would you write that into your Risk Assessment? How would you word it?

Theres literally hundreds of these types of buildings around me, ranging from small three floor blocks, right up to 20 floor towers.

I've stood back and looked at these balconies and always wondered what the 'normal procedure' would be for informing the Management company of how the windows would be cleaned and method used etc. etc. Or whether you just say - Nope, those are not included.

 

 

[Moderator David@stives]

Management companies bend over backwards to satisfy the residents, as long as the windows are being cleaned they are happy no matter how they are done. The more windows that are cleaned then the happier they are.



I have never been asked to risk assess one yet.

If you say you cant clean this or that , there is usually someone somewhere who will say yes they can clean them.

[mr D]

remember, a rick assessment is just a way to protect the person/company who is having the work done. all they really want is for you to take the responsabilty if anything goes wrong. its just you saying all the risks have been assessed.

i think you mean what would you put in a method statement?

I would say if they required a method statement you would only need to say

ladders will be used to access the balconys, to ensure this is done safely the ladder will be footed and one the climber has reached the top the ladder will be tied to the balconey bars to reduce the chance of it sliding away.

for a risk assesment you need to exsplane the risk's using ladders i'e falling from hights, unmaned ladders falling, adverse weather conditions. in my exsperance you can send a one armed one legged blind man up a ladder coverd in ky gelly just as long as you state clearly what your doing in your method statement and what risks are involved in your assement the cliant wont give a monkeys just as long as your insured and they get there windows cleaned.

mad i know but thats the way it is!

[dave0123]

Couldnt agree more with the last two posts.


Management companies are not botherd aslong as the windows are cleaned! as its in there contract so aslong as its done.. then they have done there job.

[mr D]

i think there are to many people/wc that dont understand this and think that manegment companys want them to be saints. they just want the job done well and at the best price for them. at the end of the day they hate this nanny state as much as we do.

[bumper]

they are a piece of pie ,id get the stairwell window as well when id climb over.

[Alex Gardiner]

We do a lot of properties that are of a very similar design to the picture above and it is true that management companies aren't really concerned about your own health and safety.  However, if you have an accident on site, they are going to be liable as technically they are acting as the client which is why nearly all of the management companies that we work for insist on method statement and risk assessment so that in the event of an accident, their back is covered.

We have a simple policy with the above type of building - we do not clean the balcony doors unless we can gain internal access.  The most dangerous use of any ladder is climbing on or off of it.  Statistically on building sites more accidents happen during this type of manoeuvre than at any other time.  If you are using ladders for gaining this type of access (unless you have sorted fixing them somehow or using a ladder stabilization device) then really it is negating the whole point of WFP. 

What we would do on the above type of building is quote for the job including gaining access to about 25% of the balconies from inside.  In our quote we explain that all patio windows will be cleaned on each visit ONLY if access is provided by the individual resident.  So far we have never had a problem with any management company or resident.  Usually the fussy residents who want this section of glass doing are the ones that are home when we call anyway.

[Glyn H]

We havent climbed over balconies for the last ten years.
Climbing off or onto a balcony is taking a high risk particularly in wet, icy, windy weather conditions, I am doubtfull that an Insurance policy would cover falls whilst carrying out this method.
 

[Tim82]

they can not be done buy wfp

ladders



jerry

they can be done  by wfp just push the brush head through the bars. not easy and standard poles not long enough but still possible with the right equipment.