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Bob Robertson

  • Posts: 695
Sickness policy
« on: May 17, 2008, 04:03:35 pm »
Does anyone have a sickness policy and if so do you claim it in your tax returns.
I have 2 sickness policies and a hospitalisation one, and was told by my accountant last year that you can't. I was wondering why, as I only have these because I'm self employed.

Bob

Ian Gourlay

  • Posts: 5746
Re: Sickness policy
« Reply #1 on: May 17, 2008, 11:47:00 pm »
I used to sell these policies.

But it was some time back

Would need to check Tax implications but my gut fealing is you can.


See what info others come up with if not I will check next week.

Jason Hedges

  • Posts: 1035
Re: Sickness policy
« Reply #2 on: May 18, 2008, 12:25:32 am »
The ones that i looked into weren't worth the money. Never mind the tax implications, the ammount they want each month for a minimal payout after so many months says a big no no to me.

Sorry to be so negative but looked into it in the past and was a major rip-off. Needing to be off work for far too long and receiving such small payouts (unless you want to pay serious monthly premiums).

Cant see why it shouldnt come down to expenses.

All the best,
Jason.

PaulKing

  • Posts: 1626
Re: Sickness policy
« Reply #3 on: May 18, 2008, 07:08:51 am »
If you put it like this maybe it would help

A sickness policy in place to pay YOUR mortgage and YOUR house hold bills ect is YOUR choice and YOUR are the one who would benefit,therefore nothing to do with the business. If you did claim for it your accountant is right and it would be a "benefit in kind" i.e you would be taxed at your rate which may be higher.

Key man insurance to help the business continue to run in your absence, propertied/van/equipment rental, and other such payment that need to be made (but not your wages! other than sick-pay) is there for the
benifit of the Businesses and therefore it is deductible. ( but it very expensive and you must weight up the pros and cons )

check out these plans the price goes up as you get older, and they only cover the smaller ops, Transplants, Cancer, Brain Surgery Heart operations tend to be done through the NHS,


p.s 2 sickness polices sounds strange as most insurers will only pay out on one ? i.e you can insure your car twice but if you claim twice for the same accident you won't get paid out. maybe you have been oversold with your mortgage and there's a big ho-ha on at the moment you might be able to claim the money you've paid  back, also most policies don't cover the self employed.


www.revitaclean.com  established 1968 in Newcastle Upon Tyne

Ian Gourlay

  • Posts: 5746
Re: Sickness policy
« Reply #4 on: May 18, 2008, 07:28:41 am »
If a compant enroles its personel in BUPA  does the Employee pay tax  on the cost  of providing such cover?

Doctor Carpet (Ret'd)

  • Posts: 2024
Re: Sickness policy
« Reply #5 on: May 18, 2008, 09:47:44 am »
Ian
Yes. If the company is paying the premium then it is a "benefit in kind" and would be part of your P11D return which is a return completed by all directors/business owners and all employees earning over £8500. (incidentally, the level was fixed to catch "high earners" back in 1973! :o :o Guess what? The level was never increased!

Paul you are right. You can only ever claim on one policy for one claim. Various policies are around. "Critical illness" pays out a lump sum when such an event occurs e.g. heart attack, cancer, stroke,loss of limb although as with most things there are degrees of cancer/stroke/heart attack etc.
"Permanent Health" insurance pays out an income for an agreed number of years or until such time as you retire, whichever comes sooner. (Typically you would take it out till early/mid 50s when most of your liabilities should have been repaid and to keep the premium down. Premiums can also be kept down by choosing a lower level of cover or lengthing the time to have to wait until the benefit kicks in. It is a better value for policy than those which only pay out for a max of 12 months.

Health insurance covers illness and treatment in hospital. Premiums can be reduced by choosing a higher lever of excess or being treated in NHS hospital rather than private hospital (you can even be paid for being treated in an NHS hospital.)

Like any insurance policy if you never claim on it you will say it is a waste of money. (The best type of claim would be a minor heart attack under your critical illness which would pay out a large lump sum whilst you should make a full recovery from the attack!)

All policy premiums reflect your age when you take out the policy, your general state of health at the time, the length of time you want the policy to run for, the level of excess you agree to.

SPeaking personally I have critical illness covering both me and my wife. We also have health insurance. Health insurance costs about £120 per month with an excess of £250 per claim. As some of you may know I had a very large tumour removed from inside my spine 4 years ago. Whilst I could have gone NHS as it was considered an urgent case (it was growing so quickly it would have snapped my spine from the inside (ouch)) I had had my surgery privately even before the referral letter had come through from the NHS for the initial consultation.
Today I am on my way to London to have another tumour removed from inside my left cheek bone and which the consultants in Stockport and Manchester both thought it was too complicated for them to operate on and so referred me on.

I have been able to choose when to have my operations to minimise the disruption to my business. Premiums over the last 4 years circa £5200, bills paid by the insurance company c£67000.  ;D ;D

SO if you never hear from me again then you know something has gone wrong :'( ....and Pete Sweeney... you will have to find somebody else to give my talk at next year's CCDO.

The Doc
aka Roger
Diplomacy: the art of letting other people have your way

Dave_Lee

  • Posts: 1728
Re: Sickness policy
« Reply #6 on: May 18, 2008, 03:52:29 pm »
I dont think you can claim these sort of expenses against tax. However there is an insurance organisation that I have a policy with that repays ALL the premiums you have paid up to your 65th birthday. I only have three years to go and have had my policy for a few years now, so I should pick up around £3,000. Although you dont get interest, you get the protection, and a monthly payout if something happens and you cant work plus your money back (Minus anything paid out to you when claiming) at age 65.
Dave.
Dave Lee, Owner of Deepclean Services
Chorley Lancs. Est 1980.
"Pay Cheap -You get Cheap - Pay a little more and get something Better."

stevegunn

Re: Sickness policy
« Reply #7 on: May 18, 2008, 06:36:20 pm »
I have the same policy as Dave repays premiums if I don't claim,just for peace of mind

PaulKing

  • Posts: 1626
Re: Sickness policy
« Reply #8 on: May 18, 2008, 07:00:05 pm »
Roger

Good Luck
www.revitaclean.com  established 1968 in Newcastle Upon Tyne

mitch2810

Re: Sickness policy
« Reply #9 on: May 18, 2008, 07:02:14 pm »
Dave
what is the name of the company, what are the premiums and what level of cover does it provide, because it sounds like a policy a lot of people on the boards would be interested in.
Phil

elliott cleaning

  • Posts: 778
Re: Sickness policy
« Reply #10 on: May 18, 2008, 07:21:04 pm »
I believe their are two issues at stake here.  One, are the monthly or annual premiums deductable & secondly, if alas you did have to claim on such an insurance, is the sums it pays out exempt from tax.  As far as I can see, there are a whole host of different insurances, some mentioned above, which cover different aspects on this theme.  THe only safe way to ensure you get what you expect in terms of tax exemption, is to speak to the Revenue or if your accountant is really switched on then maybe he can give you the answer.
As Paul said, "Key Man Insurance" is definately deductable.  Works for a company but not sure if or how it works if you are self employed

Doctor Carpet (Ret'd)

  • Posts: 2024
Re: Sickness policy
« Reply #11 on: May 29, 2008, 01:19:40 pm »
Well, I'm back :) :)....sort of.

The operation went better than expected with the full tumour removed a week last Tuesday. (The operation consisted of cutting the skin inside the mouth between the gum and the cheeks and lifting my face off :o :o :o. Then the surgeon drilled into the cheek and removed the tumour delving 9 cm into my skull. No damage to my optical nerves but the left side of my face is numb and I'm having problems holding my drink-it dribbles out the side of my mouth ;D.)5 days in hospital feeling very sorry for myself. Stayed with friends nearby over the bank holiday weekend.

Tuesday went back in to have the packing taken out (2 metres of gauze packing both nostrils all the way back to my mouth and also the sinuses. It's absolutely horrible as everything you drink or swallow has a taste and smell of ether about it). Just coming round from the general anaesthetic and I haemorrhage :'(

Back into theatre for a further general anaesthetic. They have now re-packed some of my nose but not so bad as before. Now I just smell of ether and have a large lump on the side of my nose where the packing sticks out.

Off on my holidays to Crete next week and i won't be able to put my head under water. (All other activities are permissible ;D) but it will be a far better place to recover than sitting at home doing nothing. Due to have to go to London again to have the packing out 19th June under a general again.

No I am not a hypochondriac ;D

Thanks guys for your best wishes. Appreciated, especially the private emails.
Diplomacy: the art of letting other people have your way

Joe H

Re: Sickness policy
« Reply #12 on: May 29, 2008, 04:26:10 pm »
and its good to hear from you Roger.

Bob Robertson

  • Posts: 695
Re: Sickness policy
« Reply #13 on: May 29, 2008, 05:25:29 pm »
Rodger its good to hear all is going well and enjoy your holiday.

I have checked with the company about the 2 sickness policies and they will pay on both if i was sick.

Bob

Dave_Lee

  • Posts: 1728
Re: Sickness policy
« Reply #14 on: May 30, 2008, 07:43:42 pm »
Phil,
The company is called 'American Life' or 'ALICO'
I clean our areas co-ordinators carpets, so if you need your local number let know.
Dave.
Dave Lee, Owner of Deepclean Services
Chorley Lancs. Est 1980.
"Pay Cheap -You get Cheap - Pay a little more and get something Better."