[peter holley]

it,s always good to cover yourself....i am canvassing each week to make sure that i have more than enough work.....even if it means it takes me a week longer to get around everyone.

that way if things get bad and i were to lose say 20% i wont be losing out

[Londoner]

The one thing that never changes is that the rich get richer, and the rich are always devising means of increasing their wealth.
Take this sub prime mortgage crises that we imported from the states. The banks are supposed to have lost billions. If you believe what they tell us you would think that every payment defaulter had had their house burned down.
If someone can't pay their mortgage the house is repossessed and sold, houses that were purchased years ago can't all be in negative equity, the only possible actual loss is when the property is sold for less than the outstanding debt, and even then they don't let the debtors off the hook, unless they actually go bankrupt the debt will still have to be paid.
The problem that is inherent in the system, is that the banks borrow money to lend, this money is borrowed from the multi national rich, when these call in the loans the banks have to sell off assets at knock down prices, these assets are of course bought up by the rich.
It's easy guys, you sell a van to Joe the window cleaner for 2 grand, you then make sure he breaks a leg and can't work, you buy the van back for a grand, and sell it on for £1.500.
Only the rich work on a far bigger scale, but one thing is certain, they will become richer. Dai

You can buy houses in the states for £10,000 because the banks can't sell them. Nobody wants to buy them and you can't get a mortgage even if you did.

If you have got some read cash you want to invest look at

www.westernnewyorkpropertyinvestment.co.uk


As an investment you won't see better than this.

[Paul Coleman]

The one thing that never changes is that the rich get richer, and the rich are always devising means of increasing their wealth.
Take this sub prime mortgage crises that we imported from the states. The banks are supposed to have lost billions. If you believe what they tell us you would think that every payment defaulter had had their house burned down.
If someone can't pay their mortgage the house is repossessed and sold, houses that were purchased years ago can't all be in negative equity, the only possible actual loss is when the property is sold for less than the outstanding debt, and even then they don't let the debtors off the hook, unless they actually go bankrupt the debt will still have to be paid.
The problem that is inherent in the system, is that the banks borrow money to lend, this money is borrowed from the multi national rich, when these call in the loans the banks have to sell off assets at knock down prices, these assets are of course bought up by the rich.
It's easy guys, you sell a van to Joe the window cleaner for 2 grand, you then make sure he breaks a leg and can't work, you buy the van back for a grand, and sell it on for £1.500.
Only the rich work on a far bigger scale, but one thing is certain, they will become richer. Dai

So you mean that when we sell our vans, we should only sell them to ladder users as there would be more chance of getting a bargain?   

Enter Mr Tennetclean.

[Paul Coleman]

The one thing that never changes is that the rich get richer, and the rich are always devising means of increasing their wealth.
Take this sub prime mortgage crises that we imported from the states. The banks are supposed to have lost billions. If you believe what they tell us you would think that every payment defaulter had had their house burned down.
If someone can't pay their mortgage the house is repossessed and sold, houses that were purchased years ago can't all be in negative equity, the only possible actual loss is when the property is sold for less than the outstanding debt, and even then they don't let the debtors off the hook, unless they actually go bankrupt the debt will still have to be paid.
The problem that is inherent in the system, is that the banks borrow money to lend, this money is borrowed from the multi national rich, when these call in the loans the banks have to sell off assets at knock down prices, these assets are of course bought up by the rich.
It's easy guys, you sell a van to Joe the window cleaner for 2 grand, you then make sure he breaks a leg and can't work, you buy the van back for a grand, and sell it on for £1.500.
Only the rich work on a far bigger scale, but one thing is certain, they will become richer. Dai

You can buy houses in the states for £10,000 because the banks can't sell them. Nobody wants to buy them and you can't get a mortgage even if you did.

If you have got some read cash you want to invest look at

www.westernnewyorkpropertyinvestment.co.uk


As an investment you won't see better than this.

For that sort of money, you could buy a place on a credit card and let it out and still be quids in - provided you have a reliable agent and reasonably reliable tenants.

[NWH]

I've had more new domestic customers asking for their windows to be cleaned than ever since March ...

So have i,i`ve known nothing like it before.

[Clive McDonald]

Dai,
It doesn't work like you think it does. They have reserves of cash or gold, these are real. Then they lend or invest.

The unreality of the situation comes in when some of the naughty ones, leant thirty three pounds for every one real pound in reserves that they had. This is similar to someone say owning one house but then using that via buy to let mortgages to buy another thirty houses with the rental income paying the mortgage fees.

A couple of tenants move out and the whole thing collapses. The house's have a smaller value and from owning his own house the man becomes a negative millioniare with the bank losing most of it's money.

When property was going up this method made some people with ordinary jobs millioniares. On a larger scale this is what the banks have been doing, and while the going was good they made a lot of money.

[Clive McDonald]

The houses were an analogy you could understant ewan. Some irresponsible banks have invested 33 times the reserves they have. I appreciate this is a difficult concept, look on a money website for fuller info dimwit.

[Londoner]

Stricty speaking the Sub Prime Crisis in America was because the banks were borrowing money to lend on morgages that they knew people couldn't afford to repay.

Now that doesn't sound like smart business sense to me. But in the twisted logic of the money markets they thought that they could manage the problem by constantly lending more and more.

Trouble is they ran out of mugs, THEN the housing market collapsed because of all the repossessions.

Not as clever as they thought are they?

[dai]

So you mean that when we sell our vans, we should only sell them to ladder users as there would be more chance of getting a bargain?   

Enter Mr Tennetclean.

True old Joe could sell his van to anyone, but banks can only sell assets to those that can afford them.

The U.S is the worlds richest economy, we are about the fifth, and what do we do when things get tight? We borrow. Now if we are doing the borrowing, who the hell is doing the lending? There must be a greater source of wealth than the worlds no1 and no5 economy. That wealth is continually being increased by hefty interest rates.
What is happening now is only History repeating itself, The Rockefellows and Rothchilds brought about the same thing in the 1920's.
If you get a chance, watch Zeltgeist, that film will really get you thinking. Dai

[Clive McDonald]

I haven't seen that film dai I'll look out for it.

Henry ford pulled the us out of the slump by hireing and paying what were thought astounding dwages. His theory was that if his workers could afford to buy his cars then he could sell more and hire more. He was a great man. Only later did he get a rep as as a union bully.

The present situation is not a media invention. We have had record low interest rates (world wide) for over a decade. Inflation has also been similarly low, and masked by the fact that worldwide we have sucked in cheaper and cheaper imports from china.

Meanwhile assets (houses) and shares have gone up probably more than they should have. Mostly everyone has been happy with this. Now that the lending crisis has hit there is to be a massive correction in the value of assets. Now that nearly all of the manufacturing jobs have gone from the uk we have very little means of fighting back. Construction is dead because of the lending, our big earning city of london instituions will be on there knees for years.

Most jobscreated in the last ten years are in service industries and public sector. Neither of these create wealth.

We've had problems before, the seventies was strikes, the nineties was a housing slump with negative equity. This time it's global and we are to be amongst the first affected

[Clive McDonald]

These are hardly my orignal thoughts but the thinking of brilliant men simplified and probably stated very badly by me. By disagreeing without any knowledge whatsoever you are showing yourself to be profoundly ignorant.

You will look back on your stupid remarks and be embarrased.

The present situation hasdrivers and reasons and I have given them (briefly), and tried to put them in perpestive (badly). If you want  a deeper knowledge of economics read up on it. There is no big debate going on, for once all of the experts agree on the causes.

If you want to argue do it on a subject you know something about or at least bone up a bit more. This is mainly a factual subject where causes are as clear and obvious as they are at present economicaly.

What is less clear is what the knock on effects will be. I admitt I don't know the answer to this.

[Londoner]

These are hardly my orignal thoughts but the thinking of brilliant men simplified and probably stated very badly by me. By disagreeing without any knowledge whatsoever you are showing yourself to be profoundly ignorant.

You will look back on your stupid remarks and be embarrased.

The present situation hasdrivers and reasons and I have given them (briefly), and tried to put them in perpestive (badly). If you want  a deeper knowledge of economics read up on it. There is no big debate going on, for once all of the experts agree on the causes.

If you want to argue do it on a subject you know something about or at least bone up a bit more. This is mainly a factual subject where causes are as clear and obvious as they are at present economicaly.

What is less clear is what the knock on effects will be. I admitt I don't know the answer to this.

Charming!  Don't beat about the bush, if you disagree why don't you say so?

[Clive McDonald]

Arguing for the sake of it, trying to prove which of us knows the most about economics on a window cleaners forum is a bit pointless. And it's not something like say creationism where there can be different opinions. The causes of this so called 'credit crunch' are understood, some of them pointed out by you and Dai.

I can assure ewan it's not something I made up.

[Clive McDonald]

Some things, like manufacturing, create wealth. Service industrys of themselves do not. This does not mean that someone such as a window cleaner can't become wealthy. Again you don't understand the concepts of what you are talking about so it's a very one sided conversation.

[frames to panes]

Wrong time of the month?

[Clive McDonald]

Anyone reading your above post who has average inteligence will grasp what i mean. You put it far subtler than I ever could.

I now see that your views are quite genuine (though misguided) and I apologise for stirring you up. Forget it, no offence taken.

[frames to panes]

That's the trouble, it's an intelligence thing I'm far too stupid too apparently.    Ewan, you are a dimwitt and as for wce well............ Brilliant what a superior being.

[mark dew]

I always thought things like exports and manufacturing created wealth. Exports because of taking the money from an external pot (another country) and manufacturing because there is a chain from sourcing raw materials etc of which the final product gives added value.
 

[WCE]

That's the trouble, it's an intelligence thing I'm far too stupid too apparently.    Ewan, you are a dimwitt and as for wce well............ Brilliant what a superior being.

Whats that supposed to mean? How did I get dragged into this thread as well? It seems us dummies are in agreement with one thing. Us mortals couldn't know about economics or magazines or window cleaning we too thick!

[mark dew]

at the risk of getting in the way of the crossfire, buying rubber and turning it into tyres adds value to the base product. Thereby creating wealth. I thought cleaning windows or other service industries don't create wealth because they don't add value to a base product.
I'm away now.