[Scrimble]

will someone please wrap TennetClean's hose around his neck and shut him up, its crap like this which ruins this forum,

i say ban TennetClean

[Mike_G]

will someone please wrap TennetClean's hose around his neck and shut him up, its crap like this which ruins this forum,

i say ban TennetClean

Fair comment.

[Sir Squeaky]

Ditto.

[TennetClean]

Squeaky, I am not intimidated by threats and if I get a reputation locally as a reporter of H&S (or a grass as you put it) then I dont mind that one bit.  WOrk legally and you have nothing to worry about.


Guys, some perspective here I think.

Do you see me threatening anybody on this forum?  Have I made any personal insults?  No I havent.  Though people have threatened and insulted me.  Yet you think I should be banned just because you happen to disagree with what I say.

This is a forum isnt it?  Isn't the whole point to discuss things and exchange view points?  I dont mind if you disagree with me, that is your right.  Surely it is also my right to to have my own views and disagree with you?

Ok maybe I am not very subtle in how I put things across, fair comment if I have offended people then I am sorry.

I think we have got as far as we can with the point and while there have been some good points made I still aint seen any argument that tells me my view of those regulatioms is wrong, and the only thing now is for me to get on with my campaign and we'll see what happens, i'll keep you posted.  And if some ladder bloke loses a contract to me because he's not complying with the law, well I'm afraid thats business aint it.

Maybe i'll save somebodys life have you thought about that?

[xxmattyxx]

Guys, some perspective here I think.

Thats rich coming from you.

Maybe i'll save somebodys life have you thought about that?

Covering up a bad motive with a good one doesnt cut any ice.

I still aint seen any argument that tells me my view of those regulatioms is wrong

Where does it say in any of the links youve used 'LADDERS ARE BANNED'? Just those 3 words. Where? Show me.



Your just a wind-up merchant: probably craving attention, like a child from a dysfunctional home where ANY attention is good attention.

Personally I think you detract from this forum, discussion is good, but you dont discuss per se, you take glee in making what are quite obviously antagonisng statements, and you dont hide from that fact; then profess total innocence and make out its just a discussion and its just freedom of speech.

[Moderator David@stives]

www.hse.gov.uk/myth/april.htm

[drwindows]

although I don't much like the way this has gone with lots of insults, I have to admit I find myself wanting to know what happens next.  It will be interesting to see what a health and safety official has to say about a window cleaner on ladders.  I also want to know if tennent gets beaten up for his trouble.  For that reason i hope he doesn't get banned before he has a chance to report back.

As for the law i dont see what all the fuss is about.  I use reach and wash and its safer and faster but it is more expensive in the first instance.  The other day my girlfriend and I got talking to a fellow wc who saw us using the poles and came over to ask some questions as he was interested himself.  I don't think he'll go reach and wash as he was a bit long in the tooth and couldnt really understand it, but I wanted him to think about it just for his own safety.

I know its not a ladder ban, but if avoiding work at height where possible does mean going out and getting a pole system if you dont have one then I hate to admit it but tennent is right and really that sort of amounts to a ladder ban anyway for window cleaning.  But whatever you use there is plenty of work to go around theres a shortage of window cleaners, thats what we have found.

[Paul Coleman]

Squeaky, I am not intimidated by threats and if I get a reputation locally as a reporter of H&S (or a grass as you put it) then I dont mind that one bit.  WOrk legally and you have nothing to worry about.


Guys, some perspective here I think.

Do you see me threatening anybody on this forum?  Have I made any personal insults?  No I havent.  Though people have threatened and insulted me.  Yet you think I should be banned just because you happen to disagree with what I say.

This is a forum isnt it?  Isn't the whole point to discuss things and exchange view points?  I dont mind if you disagree with me, that is your right.  Surely it is also my right to to have my own views and disagree with you?

Ok maybe I am not very subtle in how I put things across, fair comment if I have offended people then I am sorry.

I think we have got as far as we can with the point and while there have been some good points made I still aint seen any argument that tells me my view of those regulatioms is wrong, and the only thing now is for me to get on with my campaign and we'll see what happens, i'll keep you posted.  And if some ladder bloke loses a contract to me because he's not complying with the law, well I'm afraid thats business aint it.

Maybe i'll save somebodys life have you thought about that?

Well why don't you just go and save the poor ladder guys' lives without going on about it on here?  Posting on here about it is not an essential part of your plan to become an angel of mercy.  This leads me to believe that you may have other motives.  I could have some reasonable guesses as to why you need to post about it on here instead of just picking up the phone and doing it but I just can't be bothered with it.
Surely your campaign to save the world from itself (aka grassing) would be more effective if you gave no warning.

[Paul Coleman]

although I don't much like the way this has gone with lots of insults, I have to admit I find myself wanting to know what happens next.  It will be interesting to see what a health and safety official has to say about a window cleaner on ladders.  I also want to know if tennent gets beaten up for his trouble.  For that reason i hope he doesn't get banned before he has a chance to report back.

As for the law i dont see what all the fuss is about.  I use reach and wash and its safer and faster but it is more expensive in the first instance.  The other day my girlfriend and I got talking to a fellow wc who saw us using the poles and came over to ask some questions as he was interested himself.  I don't think he'll go reach and wash as he was a bit long in the tooth and couldnt really understand it, but I wanted him to think about it just for his own safety.

I know its not a ladder ban, but if avoiding work at height where possible does mean going out and getting a pole system if you dont have one then I hate to admit it but tennent is right and really that sort of amounts to a ladder ban anyway for window cleaning.  But whatever you use there is plenty of work to go around theres a shortage of window cleaners, thats what we have found.

He may well be right under the strictest interpretation of the law (though the "reasonably practical" bit could be a massive grey area).  I don't believe he has any intention of going around grassing though.  If he had, he wouldn't post it on here.

I'm making no more comments on this subject.

Do not feed the trolls !!!

[poleman]

TennetClean

Let me enlighten you!

First off, do you know how to report the breaches of H&S! probably not! if you wont to know then I am full aware of this, and secondly you wont put them out of business because that is not what happens with H&SE  they will be given a Improvement notice, then a Prohibition notice if they don't do anything, then and only then they will be Prosecution which takes a long time & many years, as that is the legal process in this country and there can be appeals

Now regarding the use of ladders for window cleaning is illegal!  :

WAHR was written into UK law in April 2005, at the time one WFP surliper put pressure on the powers that be, to make the use of ladders illegal! they was saying the same as you ( Every employer shall ensure that work is not carried out at height where it is reasonably practicable to carry out the work safely otherwise than at height.")

And yes they do have a good point, however that agreement at the time was lost and they have moved on to tank safety!

You must remember that WAHR is a regulation and its down to each industry to implement to there working practices, this is where Fed of Window Cleaners & APWC come in! at the moment the guidelines for safe use of ladders in window cleaning www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/misc613.pdf are under review, once they are completed, and every window cleaner complies to this guidelines then you are complying to WAHR

When I was on APWC I asked are H&S officer for are committee to help with compiling theses guidelines, having been a window cleaner for over 20 years and 15 years up a ladder, I think I have a very good understanding of whats needed, I have sat on my desk top, a file of the draft copy of the guidelines, and its not illlegal to use a ladder for window cleaning

I really do hope you can take this good advice and not waste your time and others!

      

  



 

 
    

[Clive McDonald]

That's not true either- it isn't a myth that the fire service are not allowed to use step ladders to fit smoke detectors because of health and safety.

Saying it's a myth, even by the enforceong body doesn't make it not true.

[Moderator David@stives]

Ah WC aka Andy

How you doing mate ?

Dave

[poleman]

Ah WC aka Andy

How you doing mate ?
Dave

Yes very well dave, getting married next year  (there goes all my profit  )

[Moderator David@stives]

Congratulations

Let us know when it is.

Dave

[Sir Squeaky]

Squeaky, I am not intimidated by threats and if I get a reputation locally as a reporter of H&S (or a grass as you put it) then I dont mind that one bit.

You won't be intimidated when you quite likely have your property or yourself done over by irate people who's livelihood's you've ruined?
Because they will.

Maybe not all of them, but some certainly will get revenge.
You only have to look at the working class backgrounds of some window cleaners (particularly those who haven't splashed out on wfp), to know that you don't want to mess with them.

Ruining their family income is going to be seen very gravely.
I know I would if it was me.

I don't think you're Mike Tyson, so you'll end up losing in the end.

[mr D]

for gods sake stop arguing with him its not elegle so he cant report ladder users. HSE will tell him to sling his hook and stop being such a geek.

[gordonswindows]

Well there we have it.

Ladders are banned ladders are not banned

use them for short periods is okay yeah right , where does it say you won't fall off a ladder in the first minute?

the so called traditional w/c who are scared of change don't seem to mind that they may be endangering OTHER
people by using ladders. If you weigh up the argument for and against and the risks associated with ladders and still continue to use them...well what happens if you fall and injure an innocent bystander.

What would you say to the innocent person who ended up in hospital after you fell on her/him when they ask you..

Is it safe to use ladders, is it the safest way to clean windows? isnt there a regulation about using the safest method?     or did you just stubbornly refuse to accept HSE recommendations?  thought you would save a bob or two eh?

To all you stuck in your ways, scared to invest amateurs, do you bother with public liability insurance ? and if you do and still use ladders well DOH  cos the insurance will not cover you (so you are breaking a real law) because you failed to follow hse guidelines, even if you did complete a risk assesment, if you found there was no   other practical method of cleaning windows all that means is your risk assesment was incorrect or incomplete.

Ladders for window cleaning are not excused as the regulation states not maybe or sometimes but actually states with no possible misinterpretation LADDERS MUST NEVER BE USED AS A WORK PLATFORM, where ladders correctly secured and managed can be used are for access only.

TC im with you I too will report any selfish window cleaner using a ladder, or walking on a ledge. This does not make me a grass, it is the same as i would report a bus driver for drinking and driving he might lose his livelihood
but hey maybe i saved his and other peoples lives too.

Reporting a wrongdoing is not grassing it is living in a democracy, it is for standing  up for good against evil.

Would you not report a workman using a blowtorch in a garage forecourt? asbestos removers without masks?

And then why is it not okay to report others who do not follow the rules yet charge the same and share your business and rewards

Here you are...... say your football teams chairman put in only half the investment towards safety at his new stadium to save himself a few quid and you new about it?

Unlikely anyone would ever be hurt but it could happen would you turn a blind eye so the guy could " feed his kids"  would you be happy to sit there with your kids?

TC it is people like you that make this country a better and safer place, it is people like you that act rather than turn a blind that make us all enjoy lives just a little less tragic, whether your motives are for more business for you to make more money or to save lives makes no difference the outcome will be the same..Coventry and the people of Coventry will be safer thanks to you....

and a last thought

scenario  1.  local w/c gets grassed up, loses livelihood, no holidays no PS3 for the kids wife moaning about no money

or

scenario 2.  local w/c gets grassed up, loses livelihood, no holidays no PS3 for the kids wife moaning about no money  and he is dead> fell from a ladder six feet up broke his neck.

Rubbish? never happen to you ? i'll leave it up to you all to search the net for the awful sad stories of kids without Dads..... parents without sons/brothers etc

I'm with you TC and if only one person trad or wfp or an innocent bystander  goes home safe because of your "grassing" i as a fellow forum member will be proud of you.

regards

Gordon

[Tosh]

Gordon,

Get off your high horse and sort yourself out; you've obviously got a few issues that a 'trick cyclist' could help you out with.

[mark dew]

TC it is people like you that make this country a better and safer place

LOL, Tennet, your union jack Y fronts are in the post.

Coventry and the people of Coventry will be safer thanks to you....

Classic. 

[simon knight]

Gordon you really are a complete and utter Wayne Kerr....I guarantee that more members of the public have tripped over a trailing hose than been crushed by a falling w/c....it's people of your ilk that make this country the sorry state it's in today.

Bet you don't let your kids play conkers without a visor in case one flies off and injures him....

....go and finish your muesli and come back when you've something sensible to say!