[matt]

how many builders carry a pallet of bricks and a cement miker in the back of a van ? ? ? ? ?  more builders that window cleaners

personally i would hate 1000 L water sat behind with or without ionics clamps holding it down, its alot of weight, 400 L max for me i would say ( i if decided on a van mount )

[SherwoodCleaningSe]

I was just looking on the Tuckerpole site at some of there gear and its interesting what the say under a couple of photos.

www.afd-aquafactors.co.uk/mobile-water-tanks-for-window-cleaners/

Underneath second photo down you have this.
This 360 litre one man operated system is designed to be strapped down in a small Escort sized van. It is easily removed if the vehicle has a dual purpose.

Underneath the forth picture down it says
For safety, all tanks are bolted to the floor of a vehicle using plates and stainless steel studs. We recommend that all vehicles are fitted with a bulkhead. As an optional extra the floor has been sprayed with a SPEEDLINER coating to prevent fluid ingression.

Tucker are a big company and it sounds like they are giving out mixed messages on the same web page.  I think if you have a fair size tank it should be bolted to the chassis with bolts that wont rust.  Mine is bolted down tight but I've noticed the bolts starting to rust away.  Maybe it should be part of the MOT in the future if the tank is a permanent fixture ie not a 25L barrel.

Simon.

[matt]

Mine is bolted down tight but I've noticed the bolts starting to rust away.  Maybe it should be part of the MOT in the future if the tank is a permanent fixture ie not a 25L barrel.

Simon.

get them changed for stainless steel bolts

[williamx]

They say that trailers are safer, but whats safe if you are involved in a accident, the trailer brakes free, it now on it own, travelling anywhere and if its going down hill its gathering speed all the time, its also loaded with 1 ton of water plus the 1/2 ton of equipment and trailer.

I bet that's going to hurt when it hits all them bus passengers waiting for the number 11 bus to town.

As for top gear, they could borrow "del boys" 3 wheeler, they are a corporate image that every one recognizes.

[jeff1]

I have a break away cable fitted to mine, if the trailer becomes detached from the car, the brakes are automatically applied

[xxmattyxx]

They say that trailers are safer, but whats safe if you are involved in a accident, the trailer brakes free, it now on it own, travelling anywhere and if its going down hill its gathering speed all the time, its also loaded with 1 ton of water plus the 1/2 ton of equipment and trailer.

I bet that's going to hurt when it hits all them bus passengers waiting for the number 11 bus to town.

As for top gear, they could borrow "del boys" 3 wheeler, they are a corporate image that every one recognizes.

Thats happened to me before, not with a WFP system on it, but it was a trailer.

It caused £35,000 worth of damage and put a 75 year old lady in intensive care for 5 days.

Accidents happen.

[pitcher]

I KNOW SOMEONE.FORD TRANSIT LWB120 NREG 650LT TANK STRAPED TO FLOOR(STRAPS 10 TON LORRY STRAPS)HAD HEAD ON WITH A VAN DOING ABOUT 25MPH FULL FRONTAL.VANS BOTH WRITE OFF TANK DIDNT MOVE

[groundhog]

how many builders carry a pallet of bricks and a cement miker in the back of a van ? ? ? ? ?  more builders that window cleaners

personally i would hate 1000 L water sat behind with or without ionics clamps holding it down, its alot of weight, 400 L max for me i would say ( i if decided on a van mount )

Good post matt, I have just taken out my 600ltr tank and replaced it with my old flat 400ltr tank. It's not just because its safer, but I was having to refill the 600ltr tank by about 3pm anyway, so I had just as well use the 400ltr and refill it a bit earlier. What I really need is an 800 ltr tank, but then I would need a much bigger van!!

[matt]

I KNOW SOMEONE.FORD TRANSIT LWB120 NREG 650LT TANK STRAPED TO FLOOR(STRAPS 10 TON LORRY STRAPS)HAD HEAD ON WITH A VAN DOING ABOUT 25MPH FULL FRONTAL.VANS BOTH WRITE OFF TANK DIDNT MOVE

right thats it, your off ionics christmas card list

thats not what they want to hear, how every will they sell more " safe " systems ? ? ? ?

[jeff1]

I KNOW SOMEONE.FORD TRANSIT LWB120 NREG 650LT TANK STRAPED TO FLOOR(STRAPS 10 TON LORRY STRAPS)HAD HEAD ON WITH A VAN DOING ABOUT 25MPH FULL FRONTAL.VANS BOTH WRITE OFF TANK DIDNT MOVE

That wasn't Paul was it Craig?
Just goes to show we can fit them safely, the anchor points must have been good and with 10Ton straps, no wonder it stayed where it was.

The straps I have are used to hold harrier sea Jets onto the decks of carriers, no idea of the rating but there big strong ones.

[matt]

I KNOW SOMEONE.FORD TRANSIT LWB120 NREG 650LT TANK STRAPED TO FLOOR(STRAPS 10 TON LORRY STRAPS)HAD HEAD ON WITH A VAN DOING ABOUT 25MPH FULL FRONTAL.VANS BOTH WRITE OFF TANK DIDNT MOVE

That wasn't Paul was it Craig?
Just goes to show we can fit them safely, the anchor points must have been good and with 10Ton straps, no wonder it stayed where it was.

The straps I have are used to hold harrier sea Jets onto the decks of carriers, no idea of the rating but there big strong ones.

its all about the fixing points though isnt it, as these will allways be the weak point, get a fabricater to make you some that will bolt though the chasis and your away, afterall thats what ionics have done, i belive the first lot they tried were through the floor and with spreader plates, they then decided to go through the chasis, thus much stronger

[jeff1]

I KNOW SOMEONE.FORD TRANSIT LWB120 NREG 650LT TANK STRAPED TO FLOOR(STRAPS 10 TON LORRY STRAPS)HAD HEAD ON WITH A VAN DOING ABOUT 25MPH FULL FRONTAL.VANS BOTH WRITE OFF TANK DIDNT MOVE

That wasn't Paul was it Craig?
Just goes to show we can fit them safely, the anchor points must have been good and with 10Ton straps, no wonder it stayed where it was.

The straps I have are used to hold harrier sea Jets onto the decks of carriers, no idea of the rating but there big strong ones.

its all about the fixing points though isnt it, as these will allways be the weak point, get a fabricater to make you some that will bolt though the chasis and your away, afterall thats what ionics have done, i belive the first lot they tried were through the floor and with spreader plates, they then decided to go through the chasis, thus much stronger

The first ones were through the floor Matt, with a small spreader plate attached, No way was thet going to hold, the only thing that type of install would do, is to stop your tank sliding around, No way in an impact could it hold.

[matt]

I KNOW SOMEONE.FORD TRANSIT LWB120 NREG 650LT TANK STRAPED TO FLOOR(STRAPS 10 TON LORRY STRAPS)HAD HEAD ON WITH A VAN DOING ABOUT 25MPH FULL FRONTAL.VANS BOTH WRITE OFF TANK DIDNT MOVE

That wasn't Paul was it Craig?
Just goes to show we can fit them safely, the anchor points must have been good and with 10Ton straps, no wonder it stayed where it was.

The straps I have are used to hold harrier sea Jets onto the decks of carriers, no idea of the rating but there big strong ones.

its all about the fixing points though isnt it, as these will allways be the weak point, get a fabricater to make you some that will bolt though the chasis and your away, afterall thats what ionics have done, i belive the first lot they tried were through the floor and with spreader plates, they then decided to go through the chasis, thus much stronger

The first ones were through the floor Matt, with a small spreader plate attached, No way was thet going to hold, the only thing that type of install would do, is to stop your tank sliding around, No way in an impact could it hold.

funny thing is Jeff, i know of 2 well know van converters who install " double or 3/4 sized bed which fold up to a seat, the seat has 3 point seat belts aswell"

guess how they secure the seat frames, spreader plates though the floor, now loads put children in these rear seats and i guess some may have 3 adults in them

ive even known them to be checked over for the DVLA *inspection* SVA test, before they give you plates on imports

[jeff1]

I suppose it all depends on the size of the spreader plates they install Matt, if it goes from one bolt to another then this seems to be exceptable.
The reason I say this is, when I bought my Tow bar, I noticed it only had 2 large bolts for the chassis, then another 2 went to the rear bumper brackets, but the front end of the Tow bar (right underneath towards the front) the 2 bolts that held it up Had to go through the floor pan, but inside the boot I had a spreader plate that went from one bolt right the way across to the other bolt.
Now this Tow bar is a witter, there were even dimples in the boot provided by the manufactures on where to drill the holes.

So maybe that company you know, puts longer spreader bars in.

[john tomkins]

I KNOW SOMEONE.FORD TRANSIT LWB120 NREG 650LT TANK STRAPED TO FLOOR(STRAPS 10 TON LORRY STRAPS)HAD HEAD ON WITH A VAN DOING ABOUT 25MPH FULL FRONTAL.VANS BOTH WRITE OFF TANK DIDNT MOVE

You dont say how much water he had in it, if it was "empty" I wouldn't be surprised.
How come everyone assumes the "crash" will happen only when you have a full tank

[TennetClean]

guess how they secure the seat frames, spreader plates though the floor, now loads put children in these rear seats and i guess some may have 3 adults in them

Lol, matt now this I find funny.

Are you suggesting that these spreader plates will make you safe?  All you need to do is look at p13 of the article and see the ever so amazing spreader plates tearing right through the floor of the van at only 18mph.

We are talking about securing over a tonne of weight, not a chair with kids on it.  I know kids are becomming more obese but I have yet to see one that weighs more than a tonne, LOL.

No offense matt, I think you mean well, but you just don't know what you are talking about sometimes.  The evidence is right there to see.

Either you havent read this article or you have not understood it.  (Have you read it?)  Either way, sorry but your advise is dangerous.

[Pj]

Looks to me like the new Unger "plug & play" system is safest and most cost effective for the market Ionics is targetting.

Cheaper than the Ionics safe system, no dangerous unevenly distributed loads of liquid to carry, just a powerful filtration system. 

Plug in on the job and go for it, fill your tank a bit while you're at it.

[Wayne Thomas]

IMO baffled tanks should be made with many more baffles to restrict the movement of water even further.
It's not the weight of water that is a danger as much as the movement of freely flowing water transfering around violently in the so called baffled tanks in a crash.
So much emphasis is put on securing baffled tanks to the vehicles.
How about manufacturing baffled tanks that restrict the movement of water even further to reduce the risks.

[Neil Williams]

Brilliant post.

What's brilliant is that ionics have done it again, they've got us talking about ionics again.
When it's said that stats can be made to prove anything so can vehicle testing. If you position a tank up against a bulkhead then it can't build up enough energy to shift in the same way as being placed half way down the vehicle.
Also in these tests a vehicle moving at 30 mph stops completely in namo seconds. Exactly what situation is needed for this to happen? A vehicle creating the force stated in these tests would go straight through any normal brick wall. Ifyou hit straight on a 30 tonne artic then the tank in the back is really not going to make the slightest difference to the overall outcome.
Yes of course we should secure loads accordingly but just sometimes people will use any possible situation to make themselves the saviours of our own futures, if we just sign up to them.

[matt]

guess how they secure the seat frames, spreader plates though the floor, now loads put children in these rear seats and i guess some may have 3 adults in them

Lol, matt now this I find funny.

Are you suggesting that these spreader plates will make you safe?  All you need to do is look at p13 of the article and see the ever so amazing spreader plates tearing right through the floor of the van at only 18mph.

We are talking about securing over a tonne of weight, not a chair with kids on it.  I know kids are becomming more obese but I have yet to see one that weighs more than a tonne, LOL.

No offense matt, I think you mean well, but you just don't know what you are talking about sometimes.  The evidence is right there to see.

Either you havent read this article or you have not understood it.  (Have you read it?)  Either way, sorry but your advise is dangerous.

Hmmmmmmm no i havent seen the article

im not advising anything, just having a discussion about how they secure rear seats into " camper conversions that pass the SVA test on seats, afterall are seats not meant to be safe in the event of a RTA, i have at no time advised on spreader plates for securing loads ? ? ? or have i ? ? ? ?

it was more of a discussion on that, if you read my post, i havent mentioned how to secure a tank, though people do it in all different ways, but once again, they know the risk, just like the guy who seatbelted a 250 L into the rear of his car, he knew the risk and decided it was worth it OR the builder who carries a pallet of bricks and his cement mixer OR the  people who carry 25 L drums in the boot, we know the risks and if you dont know what a 25 L drum would do hitting the back of your head, then your not that smart