[jeff1]

so i assume the same should go for lorries carrying IBC containers which are basically only packed into the trailer and sometimes straps through over them ?

sounds like scaremainering

"Now if its true what ionics say (and I can't see why its not) that insurance companies will soon refuse insurance to van mounted systems, if they are not fitted to the FMVSS standard"

where do Ionics say the above and which insurance companies name has been put to this

Its on page 19 under the heading Crash testing and the future.
for those that don't have the mag I will give a brief out-line.
Quote
Insurers too are now becoming very sensitive to this issue.
Obtaining motor insurance that have non compliant systems installed is becoming more difficult.
Several insurers now ask to see the certificate of compliance with FMVSS-208 before they agree to insure a vehicle.
un-quote
That was an extract from the mag.

[Jago]

I live right next to the TRL and they have all the road testing crash mad things and pullies I recon they would be up for the test and I will have a chat with my mates one has got to have an in somewhere
If not we are all taking £10 down to St Ives lol
This is a you tube opportunity and it could save the rest of us

But I will try and find out about the Road Traffic Lab to see if they will test it and what we would need
on the down side If you do you know that they could bring out laws and therefore screw us

big companies regards life as money paid out in accidents and weigh it up to the % of it actually happening by how much to develope.

Watch Fight club the bit about insurance it is all true I have seen it happen twice at a big UK plane company that flies the flag

[davids3511]

Can I drive it ?

well there is the danger you could die... but all things considered i dont see why not

i would prefer alexis the ctd, but

who would be up for donating £10 and seeing what can be done?

You probably would want to have Dave sign something there you know, just in case his widow got one of those 'no win, no fee' bods onto you 

[steve m]

just renewed my van insurance on monday, as long as I'm not carrying explosives, something or other or acid powder they didnt have a problem. Now the thing that bugs me about all this is that most of us fit tanks in with straps. Now ny vans hane 400 litre tank fitted (2/3 of the carrying capacity of the van) and with the flat tank fitted tight to the bulkhead they are then strapped in using 5 tonne ratchet straps. These are the maximum cloth type straps on the market- the type I used to strap pallets onto 40 foot trailers, and yes I used to carry IBC tanks, 26 at a time. These straps are fitted to the anchor points on the van floor that are put there by the manufacturer. So here's my point/question- if the straps fail and the achor points fail, how come the straps have a kite mark on, and if the van fails how can it be sold for carrying freight in the first place.

Personally I believe its a little bit of scaremainering to get the newbies to part with their hard earned

[jouk45]

whats the chances of  smashig into a concrete wall   :

[jeff1]

I think we should conduct a test ourselves,

if everyone one on this forum put in £10 we could buy a ex bt transit mk5 for £500 and get a 500l tank and strap it down,

get a few high speed camera at 2 angles and 2 normal speed cameras. and then all we need is a big block of concrete,

i think it would be good to crash it at 40mph a more realistic speed to have a head on, i dont know about you but you have to be a fool to have a head on at 30mph, if you hit another car its 15mph each,

its more likely to be 60mph in a built up area where bother vehicles are traveling at 30mph.

so to conclude lets get a van and test it ourselves to see what really happens

who is with me, i will donate the first tenner!

Listen Guy's I don't fancy some window cleaner being scaped of the windsceen or the concrete wall, so here is what I have done for you and you can all help me out here.

I have just contacted Top Gear via there web and asked for the Hampster to conduct these test for us, (I am so a dead man my Boss just said she loves this little hampster), So I made sure I asked for him to conduct the tests Lol
Here is the link, www.bbc.co.uk/topgear/contact_us_thanks.shtml
 just back me up and ask them to conduct the tank test useing 1000ltrs of water using a tank of course or knowing them lot they will try it without the tank Lol, I have asked for the test to be done at a speed of 45/50mph useing ratchets as tie downs.
If we bombard them with requests I think they may just do it, if anything just to give us w/c a load of stick.

[jouk45]

jeff can you not lead the way and sit in the van for us, just to prove it works 

[steve m]

thing is if they do do it

1/ they will probably use the rustiest ribby old van
2/ wont fasten them down properly

If the van isnt a total right-off they wouldnt bother. If nothing happens to the van and all that happes is that it ends up with a flat end its not exactly good tv, unless your a window cleaner

[jeff1]

jeff can you not lead the way and sit in the van for us, ust to prove it works 

Sure I can Joe, but you have to stand against the concrete wall to cusion the blow for me.

[jouk45]

thats no prob with the weight am putting on lol, on a seriouse note, i thought all vans with water tanks had a secured barrier behind them, as well as the tank being secured to the floor, should the barrier if built correctly from strong material, not stop the tank landing on our heads,

[TennetClean]

I read the mag, and to be honest it is what I already knew but was putting to the back of my mind.

I knew it was an important thing, but i guess i have been just trying not to think about it.

It has made me want to speed up getting a new system, and i'm now even more sure of what I will get.

[steve m]

atricle worked then tennet!!

[TennetClean]

atricle worked then tennet!!

In highlighting a danger, yes.

[matt]

atricle worked then tennet!!

In highlighting a danger, yes.

or selling another system ? ? ? ?

yes

[AuRavelling79]

whats the chances of  smashig into a concrete wall   :

This is a good point. If I have a head on there is a metre or two of crumple zone on each vehicle. (A bit of give, that you don't get with a concrete wall.)

To be representative of a "head-on" you need to crash into another vehicle.

[steve m]

so the question has to be asked, is it a safety feature or an advertisment?. How do they fix the tank to the chassis. do they weld brackets onto it  or do they drill into it?- ie: weakening the structure. Now I dont for one minut doubt that its safe, the safety tests show that it is but no-one has ever done tests on the actual strapping points with straps. In one of their brochures it shows a sprinter being smashed into a wall/block and the chassis buckling, where is the last photo of that reel?, can we see the end result. Also that was a test at 30, in a head on crash both vehicles doing 30mph would have a terminal speed of 60mph- what would happen to the van and driver then

Surely if this has made you think why not double the gap between you and the car infront, and that number in that round road sign is a limit not a target

[groundhog]

I recieved my copy first thing this morning, and it made it's usual journey from my letterbox to my bin!!! You wouldn't catch me reading that load of Ionics propaganda!!!!!  And to think that they actually used to try to make us pay for that load of rubbish!!

[Alex Wingrove]

ok i dont think top gear will do it how we want it done, instead of 1000l which very few of us carry, 600l is a happy medium,

how about a pledge pay, where we all say yep i will put down ten pounds if and when you get it all together,

that way no one parts with any money until it is necessary, we could all chip in things we want to see, speed, straps anchor points etc etc etc

i think i could get hold of some high frame rate cameras too

[Sir Squeaky]

Those videos are a load of crap.

There's no bulkhead, so if it's not secure of course it's going to hit the back of the driver. 

Like to see my 300-odd litres jump 2 feet in the air and go through a steel bulkhead. :

[groundhog]

Surely if this has made you think why not double the gap between you and the car infront, and that number in that round road sign is a limit not a target

Excellent advice Steve!! That is exactly how I drive, and is a far safer option than waisting 10k on a flashy system then charging around because you have been lulled into a false sense of security by a glossy advert that basically says 'you will be perfectly ok in a head on collision as long as you and the vehicle you collide with is only travelling at 15mph'!!