[mark_roberts]

Cleaned my van today (gettin sign written tomorrow)

Cleaned one half with cold soap spray then the brush then cold rinse

Cleaned the other half the same but with hot water.

Amazing the difference in cleaning ability between hot and cold.

What temp do you clean at?

I have the dial at 80-90c all the time.

Mark

[Shaun_Ashmore]

I really would like Steve Carpenter to answer this, mainly because I may be in the market for a CFR machine.

Shaun

PS is it true that CFR make a 1000psi model?

[Dynafoam]

Mark,

Does sugar dissolve better in hot tea or cold water?

Part of the reason is covered in:

 http://www.another forum.co.uk/?board=cc_issues;action=display;num=1103315362

When it come to carpet/upholstery cleaning I tend to use the highest temperature compatible with the item being cleaned and any cleaning agents involved. This commonly translates to 65-95C - at the solution impact point

Heat, of course, is not the only element effecting cleaning efficiency and Steve will doubtless (correctly) say that there may be good reason why heat is sacrificed  to facilitate the enhancement of other elements. Any cleaning system must be judged by the overall efficiency rather than the strength of individual elements.

[Ian Gourlay]

Could anyone tell me about The Chemspec product that works with cold water,

Personally I clean below 85c as i use Ultimate Master,

Also my Heat Exchanger is not the latest model.

[gwrightson]

Shaun , yes cfr do make a 1000psi model , and if i recollect from my last course
 heat is not an issue , with the cfr ? according to steve " correct me if im misinformed Steve"  if this is the case, Why are cfr bringing out a machine with heat ?  is this just to satisfy demand and not really neccasary ? or do we all need heat if the truth be known ?
 geoff

[David Ware]

Hi Mark
I take it you are talking about cleaning the outside panels of your van.The best I've found for this type of cleaning is to use soluton No 8 or any other MS solution diluted 20-1 soft brush then cold water rince.One way to see how effective MS are.
David Ware

[neil 47]

Ian  if you are using UM ,which I use then it states that it shouldn,t be used at above 55c.

ps  not that I do .
 91% of carpets i set the temp as high as i can


 Neil     

[Shaun_Ashmore]

Geoff what do they call the 1000psi machine? I can't find it on their web site.

Shaun

[Dynafoam]

Shaun,

See http://www.cfrcorp.com/commercial/altra.html

[Shaun_Ashmore]

Thanks John, I can't see the wood for the trees

Shaun

[Steve Carpenter]

Hi Shaun,

CFR have manufactured a machine with an internal heat exchanger for many years. It has been popular with contractors cleaning establishments that suffer from protein based soiling as found in clubs, pubs and restaurants etc. It has facilitated slightly quicker results for operators when used in conjunction with CFR cleaning solutions. As one would expect increased heat is beneficial in this environment.

However, the CFR concept is completely different to conventional extraction systems because the solution is always in transit and is passed in, through and out of the fibres simultaneously whilst under high pressure.  Moisture is never allowed to penetrate the carpet backing or underlay. Also with the placement of the jets the carpet or fabric is almost pressure washed. For example 400 psi applied through CFR’s engineered system will provide 400 pounds (27.5 bar) of pressure per square inch of deep cleaning power. This results in 1.25 gallons (4.7 litres) per minute of cleaning fluid passing through the fibres to produce superior cleaning results. More water flow equals more soil removal, so heat is not always an issue when cleaning with CFR equipment.

The Altra Heat 400 along with the rest of the Altra series has now been discontinued and replaced with the new larger capacity (95 litre) Paramount series. This new machine is also available with heat, ozone, 400-psi pump or if required a 1000-psi pump.

Regards

Steve

[Ken Wainwright]

Sometime earlier last month, I was on site and there was no hot water available. Although I have the facility to heat water in tank, I decided not to. I cleaned in my normal wayusing OneStep Fineline. To be honest, the carpets were only moderately soiled and, like John B, I tend to agitate extensively with my Host Machine. The end results were pleasantly surprising. I've done half cold/half hot since with no problems, but initial drying seems to be better the hotter the water. My average now seems to be about 40C.  Since then, I have consciously stopped using my heater on all but the most heavily soiled carpets and not had any cleaning problems.

If I may be critical of the CFR equipment, as a non-user it would appear that the dropping of the medium capacity Altra range is sad. As we have been led to believe, the CFR system requires the water tank to be kept full. So 95 litres x 7 equates to a 665litre working capacity. When tackling small to medium sized jobs (the bread and butter for most of us) the Paramount machines with their larger 95 litre tanks will require a lot of unnecessary filling/emptying. The Pro 400 and Altra range would appear to be more suitable sizes for the bulk of the market. Comments Steve?

Safe and happy cleaning
Ken

[Steve Carpenter]

Hi Ken,

Customers stateside demanded a larger machine so CFR developed the Paramount 20 as a replacement for the Altra series. As an Altra Pro 1000 owner I had some initial misgivings about a larger machine also, but its capacity is proving to be popular with carpet cleaners here. In fact I’m thinking of upgrading to the Paramount Pro 1000.

When I arrive on site whether domestic or commercial I set up the CFR and vacuum fill the machine by connecting the hose to a tap. Whilst the machine is filling (5-7 minutes) I will be bringing in additional equipment, or I will start vacuuming the carpet or suite. There is a vacuum float in the CFR system that will cut off when capacity is reached. So having to fill the machine to its capacity is not an issue as I maximise my time on the job.

When using CFR equipment for spotting it’s not necessary to fill the machine to its maximum capacity.

The ‘compact’ 28-litre CFR Pro 400 Workstation is still available and is a favourite of mine from the range mainly because of ease of use and big machine performance etc. This is suitable for both domestic and commercial carpet cleaning.

A replacement for the Pro 400 Workstation is on the drawing board. It probably wont be available here until next year. I’m told though that both its solution and pressure capacity will increase.

Regards

Steve

[Alan_Harrison]

I use  CFR and M/S for cleaning rugs. Stuff that's been in the kitchen or is a bit doggy I spray with ms and then brush in using a Polti steamer.  Very effective. Take care if you try it. Keep the brush moving all the time so the heat doesn't build up too high, otherwise the pile can go a bit curly....oops 

[Michel Roberts]

Steve

I thought perhaps wrongly that the new machine was going to be a replacement for the Altra. Am I wrong in thinking this as I thought it was disscussed a while ago on the boards,maybe I got mixed up.

Regards Michel

[Doug Holloway]

Hi Guys,

Heat has a number of advantages to cleaning.

At higher temps the molecules move faster , so reactions occur faster.

It softens fats , sugars , starches etc which makes them easier to remove.

Higher heat will kill more bacteria and viruses, particularly useful this time of the year.

Hotter water will evaporate quicker because it is more 'excited'.

Surface tension will be reduced at higher temps allowing faster and more effective wetting out.

If cold water could be used for effective washing then it would be

Cheers,

Doug

[Steve Carpenter]

Hi Michel,

The CFR machine that’s going to eventually replace the Pro 400 Workstation will have a much larger working capacity. Options will include a single vacuum or dual vacuums, ozone assisted cleaning and a heat exchanger. Pump pressure will also increase.

Dimensionally it is closer to the existing Pro 400 than the Altra series, with the exception of a larger solution/vacuum tank. The new body style will also be rotationally moulded.

This machine I’m sure will offer a happy medium to the operator who cleans in both the domestic and commercial environments.

Hi Doug,

I both use and recommend that where possible hot water is used to fill the CFR system for the very reasons you mentioned. With the exception of your statement that “higher heat will kill more bacteria and viruses, particularly useful this time of the year.”

This is slightly misleading for our field, as our equipment won’t generate steam or provide the minimum contact time necessary to be effective at killing microbes. Although lower temperatures will kill bacteria and some viruses, the contact time required would neither be practical or cost effective for carpet cleaning. Damage would result in the prolonged use of heat and water.

To effectively kill microbes you would have to both pre-treat carpets and apply a post treatment of an anti-microbial agent, or use ozone assisted cleaning equipment. Even after this treatment it would be debatable whether textiles are left completely sterile because of soils left behind, construction of the carpet, or the environment that they are installed in.

At best regardless of system used all we can achieve is a cosmetic clean. However, high performance portables and truck mounts regardless of whether they use cold, warm, hot or superheated water will remove more soil because of increased water flow.

Regards

Steve

[Dynafoam]

Doug,

I have to agree with Steve on the matter of killing bacteria and viruses with heat.

The recommendation for killing these with boiling water is that the temperature of the water be maintained at boiling point for no less than five minutes.  Larger organisms such as carpet beetle and dust mites are another matter.

On the other advantages of using hot water, I am on total agreement (as I am sure, is Steve)

[Doug Holloway]

Steve/John,

I stand corrected

Cheers,

Doug