[matt]

How many of you can honestly say you are 100% happy with pure water? It drives me stupid not getting perfect results, spending around £10,000 inc van on a system that  gives less than perfect results. This invention is still not good enough in my opinion. It doesn't matter how long i scrub, how much i rinse, how clean my water is, I want perfection. No grubby corners, no runs of spots, no odd spots in the middle of nowhere just lovely clean glass that i cant pick fault with.

And when you were cleaning windows with a squeegee, and if you were perfectly honest, then you would admit that no window you walked away from was perfect either.  Yes it would be possible. but the time it would have taken would have put you out of business.

Peter Fogwill
www.window-tools.com

9 out of 10 were YES

this is part of the reason i still trad downstairs

upstairs i have a reason to use WFP, its a safety thing

[dan hughes]

I'm fussy too !!

I did my house, for the first time in ages yesterday (WFP) I had done rest of my estate too.
did a fast "first clean" type clean on my own windows - like I would have on a customers house. Good job, so I thought !!!!!

They dried absolute rank. Crap. Spotty like a teenager, so bad in fact that I went round all the other houses on teh estate checking theirs!

They were perfecto though ! Grr!

[Wayne Thomas]

I always check the windows I've WFP...................

when I'm back on my next appointment to clean, lol

[Alex Wingrove]

It really comes down to a law of averages, no matter how you clean, during the course of a day there will be so kind of a blemish, spot, smear, run, drip, etc etc etc, you just cant get perfection on every single pane of glass on every single house, let alone frames and sills aswell,

how many of you have cleaned a house regularly to one day find dirt underneath the sill that you didn't think was there, but somehow its been tucked up in a spiders web for months, and only now dropped down, or gone back to a job found spotless window, and just a few slight dirty water marks on the frame,

or you didn't quite wipe the edge of the seal, when you was using the cloth,

i did a house on Wednesday, patio doors and window were caked in sand etc, so sprayed with some tfr, scrubbed and rinsed, 10mins later came back scrubbed rinsed again, went back 4 hours later, they were perfect, but the window at the front, that was reasonable after 6 weeks still had a few little spots

so after all that ramble law of averages

[Peter Fogwill]

Dunno about others but I can get windows absolutely perfect using traditional tools. I examine my own windows with a magnifying glass in the full sunlight every time I do them, I'm the fussiest person on the planet when it comes to my windows, but seriously not a smear or spot on them.

I give all of my customers the same level of quality, perhaps leaded or georgian, yes you can leave the odd smear, but squeegee? Perfect for me.

This thread isn't really what I need (although I knew this), hopefully switching over fully soon, it's taking it's time and toll on the wallet.

But if you were perfectly honest?  

The last thing I want is to get into a debate about traditional verses water fed pole.  I would like to say though that even before I sold water fed pole equipment, I have debated with quite a few window cleaners who deny that they leave the windows less than perfect cleaning traditionally.  No one would ever admit to leaving anything behind, even if I was standing looking at something they had left on the glass.  Its human nature.


Peter

[Steve_Richardson]

I always check the windows I've WFP...................

when I'm back on my next appointment to clean, lol

Seriously though, this is a good test for me. If you have cleaned a window in an awful way then you can be sure that unless the customer has re-cleaned them for free (like that happens!) then you WILL see the spots/runs etc the next time you go.

[L.J.Thorpe]

i have lost customers because of wfp
i have gained custs because of wfp
some custs tolerate it but pay anyway
some love it and tell all their friends
most dont know or care as long as the windows look cleaner than before they picked up your payplease slip
if anyone has custs that use a magnifying glass dump em

[Jimmy1]

Ive only been going 4 weeks now WFP (never done trad), so 95% are first cleans and am now only just going onto second/third cleans. They are not coming up perfect, but I'm taking my time, I have found if I do all the upstairs windows then repeat and the same for downstairs I am getting far better results than just doing each window once thoroughly. With the first cleans I have to admit to drying off the bottom windows (whilst explaining to the custie, would not normally do) everybody is commenting on the shine off the windows as compared to trad, people also appreciate the fact frames and sills are done (most trad cleaners round here refuse to do) Of the few I have done 2 or 3 times they seem to be coming great. Mind I have targeted all new houses with PVC, so this is possibly helping. So far I have lost no clients and everyone is well impressed so I'm very pleased.

[gary999]

i personally feel happy with wfp i have 100% confidence in the job it
does maybe im lucky ive only been cleaning two years and one of those
has been with the pole. maybe its easier for the likes of myself who have only
been in window cleaning a short time to take that mental step of belief in
the system.

i have had few probs and the ones ive had have been easily resolved
normally with help of people on forums such as this one

[peter holley]

i'm a window cleaner... my business is based on reliability ...turning up every month....i am not a window perefectionist...

mY ROUND IS GROWING THROUGH RECOMMENDATION!    I DO EVERY SINGLE JOB WFP   ......
my customers are happy.....and thats the main thing....

[pjulk]

I think WFP is far from perfect and if i was going to start again i would stay with ladders.

Some jobs come up blinding others i have noticed when doing inside cleans not so well.

At least with traditional you know more or less you will be doing an excellent job.


Quite often i use traditional downstairs because im happier leaving them this way.
I know it may take me longer but i did not get into window cleaning for the money although it helps.

Paul

[[GQC] Tim]

Dunno about others but I can get windows absolutely perfect using traditional tools. I examine my own windows with a magnifying glass in the full sunlight every time I do them, I'm the fussiest person on the planet when it comes to my windows, but seriously not a smear or spot on them.

I give all of my customers the same level of quality, perhaps leaded or georgian, yes you can leave the odd smear, but squeegee? Perfect for me.

This thread isn't really what I need (although I knew this), hopefully switching over fully soon, it's taking it's time and toll on the wallet.

But if you were perfectly honest? 

The last thing I want is to get into a debate about traditional verses water fed pole.  I would like to say though that even before I sold water fed pole equipment, I have debated with quite a few window cleaners who deny that they leave the windows less than perfect cleaning traditionally.  No one would ever admit to leaving anything behind, even if I was standing looking at something they had left on the glass.  Its human nature.


Peter

I think I see what you mean now Peter, the only thing I can think of is that I don't always detail the edges, 90% I will, if you can see there is detailing to be done, I do it, if it's so minute that you can't see it unless you're nose to the window, then sometimes I will leave it, depends on what mood I am in (funnily), also I don't dry the bottom seal, cuz that dries on it's own. But as to leaving smears or spots on the windows, never, and I'm being perfectly honest Peter. I wouldn't call myself a perfect window cleaner, just good I guess.

I always wipe the sill, now and then I wipe the frame, always on first cleans.

[vision tech]

ive just bought a van today so as i can go wfp but to listen to all the negatives about it i wonder should i change,ive been doing trad for 16 yrs and have a good loyal flock,i would hate to ruin all that,maybe as jimmy says his custies are all new so he does not have a long standing relation with his custies to worry about. to tell you the truth i think wfp is only good for offices where the payclerk does not care what the job looks like.

[groundhog]

Blimey, I get perfect results using wfp virtually everytime, the same as when I was trad if not better!!! You must be doing something wrong, perhaps it's all this rinsing with the brush on the glass thats causing the problems, I always rise brush off!! 
As for spending £10k on a system!! Why!!! My system was put together for less than £500 and I get fantstic results!!!! 

[chris@c.m.s]

WfP done correctly will on 95% of jobs will leave a better finish, get it right and your customers wont touch trad again

[mark dew]

i always check 1st cleans when they are dry and often have to use a scraper for stubborn marks. This takes alot longer, but on subsequent cleans the majority of windows come up sparkling.
Yesterday i went back to a job that i hadn't done for a couple of months and 3 sides of the house were still looking good.
Apart from fly poo, i have alot of confidence in wfp.

[mr D]

good read making me think 2wice about getting a wfp. having used one b4 when i worked for a company we got nothing but complants but i put that dont to the system/set up being pants. maybe it wasnt maybe its just because you cant substertute the up close and personal tough of trad. can any one name a customa that would say ''i dont want mine done that tradtional way i want them sprayed and brushed'' ??

[frames to panes]

Blimey, I get perfect results using wfp virtually everytime, the same as when I was trad if not better!!! You must be doing something wrong, perhaps it's all this rinsing with the brush on the glass thats causing the problems, I always rise brush off!! 
As for spending £10k on a system!! Why!!! My system was put together for less than £500 and I get fantstic results!!!! 

Price includes van. Customers are happy I'm the one who isn't, always rinse off, never 100% happy with results - i am VERY fussy.

[pingu]

Both ways of cleaning can produce a 'good' job in the right hands....in the wrong hands it'll look bad....whether this is best or not is very 'playground'...it's a silly debate which will never be answered....

We are small business's and as such we work to earn....can either system be perfect...no!...can both be safe...yes...

Dave.

[Alex Gardiner]

good read making me think 2wice about getting a wfp. having used one b4 when i worked for a company we got nothing but complants but i put that dont to the system/set up being pants. maybe it wasnt maybe its just because you cant substertute the up close and personal tough of trad. can any one name a customa that would say ''i dont want mine done that tradtional way i want them sprayed and brushed'' ??

Yes I have picked up a lot of commercial work because the manager has not wanted ladders/buckets on their premises and has seen us working and asked for this.

I remember about 6 years ago I was doing an architects large house (which I had also picked up because we used WFP) when a little old gentleman came around the corner and said could we fit in any more work? We said yes and later drove down to the apartment block that he lived in. He had walked about 1/2 a mile from where he lived because he had seen us cleaning windows without ladders and wanted us for his complex. We are still doing that apartment (24 units) block now and they still love it. The residents had sacked the last window cleaner specifically because he used ladders which they found scratched sills and removed pebble dash.