[Wayne Thomas]

FAO: Glyn (Omnipole)

Hi Glyn,

As you may be aware, I was considering wether to buy your Omnipole gutter vac system or Ionics Upkeeper system. In the end I decided to go for the Upkeeper because it's petrol, (work anywhere, anytime without being restricted to relying on plugging in to a customer's home electricity supply or storing a generator in the back of the van as well as the gutter vacuum).
I know you sell the camera & MP4 recorder in a silver hard briefcase kit for surveying gutters. Can you email me the price of the camera kit with the MP4 with a wide angle lens to easycleanwayne@msn.com.
Do you have a fitting kit for the camera to be mounted on an Ionics Upkeeper. If not, I still have my Omnipole pressure washing pole to mount the camera on.

[Jeff Brimble]

Maybe you need both systems, one of jobs has to be accessed from inside and a petrol vac inside an office would be a no no.

[Wayne Thomas]

Maybe you need both systems, one of jobs has to be accessed from inside and a petrol vac inside an office would be a no no.

Sorry Jeff, I don't follow you, are you on about working in court yards.

[poles apart]

I've got the Gutter Keeper and use a camera from Maplins, much cheaper than Omnipoles.
It's interesting to see suppliers 'promoting' their different systems although I don't see Ionics on here doing the same.....oh but they were banned for doing that were'nt they 

[Jeff Brimble]

Yes Wayne an iner courtyard with no external access ! at all ! so elecy vac in office and ladders through windows & hoses outside, maybe also for the occasional flat roof job. But you could hire a vac for that.

[poleman]

Would this be any use to convert to a gutter vac

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=190209808648&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=009

Obviously the 80ltr one is the one i am looking at

Dean

Hi Dean, the motor doesn't have the power to be able to do the job

I would advice to be at least above 2000W to be able to clean out gutter up to 15 to 20ft

Above that you going to need a 3000W motor or higher, to be able to do commercial buildings, and that is where the good money is

The one I purchaesd some weeks ago, is back in stock http://www.easterntrading.co.uk/shop/shop.php?action=full&id=5

If you go with the above or any 3600W vacuum cleaner the tank will be large 80lts and can be a pain moving around of residential properties because the motor is heave and so will be the tank when full, so 15meters of 51mm hose is a must

As Glyn has said building your own Gutter Vacuum System, can be time consuming and the margins between omnigutter and DIY can be small, I have been luck and only spent today 240 pounds (right place right time) on a 3000W & 51mm hose

My next purchase will need some sort of tuping to get up to the gutter! omnipole have told me they would indeed sell me there tubing and attachments for 425 pounds, a aplord them for changing there minds, but at that price I might as well got there system in the first place and no way as light as a SL2

So I spoke with Gardens about the SL2 but was out of stock to next month! I rang http://www.emporiumpoles.co.uk/ and they said...to use carbon fibre to vacuum out gutters is going to damage the inside of the pole and coarse splits and cracks because of the stones and debris that come from the gutters

I put this to a SL2 gutter cleaning user and his words was...

Emporium are correct....... BUT.... The SL2 is a better quality pole. I have used my SL2 on many occasions now for gutter cleaning. on 1 school job is was used to vacuum up large mounds of soil, slate, stones, cutlery, toy cars, pieces of wood and even a few leaves. The SL2 was used for server hrs sucking up that sort of waste and still owe now sign of wear on the joints. I spray the connections and into the interior of the pipe with "Teflon" spray from Strauss-direct.co.uk and I feel this helps to protect it. Also most of the debris will be in free fall inside the tube and so it will not cause a lot of damage as it is bouncing off the sides and not rolling or being dragged along the inside if you had it flat on the floor.
Jeff did do a test to destruction on a short piece of CF tube which was horizontal and only sucking grit. I think it took him nearly an hr of constant use before it started to crack. The tube he used was not as strong as Gardner's and he told me he recons it multiplied the effect by 100 fold by having it horizontal all the time. The SL2 sections are around £55 each to replace but this should be factored in to your cost anyway. To me the main advantages of using as SL2 for gutter cleaning is the weight saving, the height it can go to and the fact that it is utilizing a WFP pole that might other wise spend a lot of time just in the back of the van not being used so therefore a saving in equipment costs. Just 1 or 2good high jobs that would normally take a cherry picker to do could be done with an SL2 gutter cleaner and have paid for the whole system. Remember the higher you go the more you charge but the cheaper it is for the customer. A job that might involve cherry pickers and scaffolding might cost the company £4k - £5k and take a week to do with moving scaffolding, around etc. But you could do the same job in just 1 - 2 days and charge £2k.... So a win win situation for everyone except the cherry picker and scaffolding companies...

I am happy with this answer and will be waiting for the SL2 to come back in stock

My advice to all suppliers and manufacturers, this part of our industry is only just beginning! and if you build a carbon module pole (lightest pole for the job) that has the inner wall built to last (maybe Kevlar) then its only going to be a win win situation for everyone
 

[Alex Gardiner]

My advice to all suppliers and manufacturers, this part of our industry is only just beginning! and if you build a carbon module pole (lightest pole for the job) that has the inner wall built to last (maybe Kevlar) then its only going to be a win win situation for everyone
 

An interesting thought.

Just finished a large gutter cleaning job today on an 3/4 storey apartment block. Did it all from a 60ft cherry picker - got to be the easiest way in my opinion   

[Glyn H]

Emporium are correct....... BUT.... The SL2 is a better quality pole

This statement is completly incorrect for the following reasons:-
Carbon fibre poles are designed to be thin walled but no carbon fibre pole is completly carbon fibre they all have a resin + glass fibre content to give them strength. The thinner the wall the less fibreglass and resin content and therefore the lighter the tube... therefore the SL2 has probably more glassfibre and Resin content than the Emporium which is lighter, this means in actual fact the Emporium is more likly the better quality pole.

Secondly Carbon fibre is designed for lightness and not for impact, in fact the worst thing you can do to a carbon fibre pole is put it into a situation where impact is likely their must be many of this forum that have seen or heard of carbon fibre poles shattering through impact.

Thirdly If carbon fibre was a suitable material to be used  for vac tubes then  manufacturers of vacuum cleaners would have adopted it .

Fourthly the dust given off from carbon fibre/glass fibre being abraded is a  health risk and I believe you will be acting neglegently if these tubes are used for vacuuming - if you make the foolish choice of using these tubes then at the very least a resporator should be worn.

[crystal.clear]

GLYN H

 Im looking at ordering a omnipole cutter vac tomo but i would like to ask why is ur system alot cheaper than ionics? im going to go for the 36' system and maybe add the camera on as well.

[poleman]

My advice to all suppliers and manufacturers, this part of our industry is only just beginning! and if you build a carbon module pole (lightest pole for the job) that has the inner wall built to last (maybe Kevlar) then its only going to be a win win situation for everyone
 

An interesting thought.

Just finished a large gutter cleaning job today on an 3/4 storey apartment block. Did it all from a 60ft cherry picker - got to be the easiest way in my opinion   

Cost would be a big factor! most commercial sites are aware of H&S (&costs) so if you was to us a MEWP then your going to need a IPAF licence, day course 200 pounds, then your need to buy a saftey harness and lanyards 100 pounds and then there cost of hiring MEWP as well 300 / 400 pounds day rate

Then your get Mr. H come along and under cut you 

[Alex Gardiner]

Emporium are correct....... BUT.... The SL2 is a better quality pole

This statement is completly incorrect for the following reasons:-
Carbon fibre poles are designed to be thin walled but no carbon fibre pole is completly carbon fibre they all have a resin + glass fibre content to give them strength. The thinner the wall the less fibreglass and resin content and therefore the lighter the tube... therefore the SL2 has probably more glassfibre and Resin content than the Emporium which is lighter, this means in actual fact the Emporium is more likly the better quality pole.

This is a completely un-substantiated comment Glyn. I realise that you now have a vested interest in Emporium poles so will be keen in defending them, but to make a statement as above which has no factual backing is not very wise. Having examined and used both poles extensively, I am confident in my opinion  that the SL2 is of a much greater build quality than the Emporium (much to my relief, as if it were the other way around I would have had to re-engineer the design of the SL2  )

We do have an Emporiuim pole in our ownership and various experienced pole users have been able to easily draw conclusions about the poles comparative build quality. We have also undertaken a rigidity test on the pole compared against the SL2. We will be re-creating this soon with photographs.

[Jeff Brimble]

I sat under our patio roof because it was raining hoovering gravel for 1 1/2 hours doing the destruction test. It was boring noisy and dust from the gravel was being expelled by the vac 10ft away from me. I washed and wetted the gravel half way through to make it similar to gutter slurry, but the dust still came out of the vac.

It was only the day after when I realised that the c/f content that had been removed from the inside of the shotblasted pole,was part of the "dust" from the wet vac exhaust that I had  inhaled for 90 min. It frightened me rigid because I usually try to be careful what I do. Hopefully no damage was done - or was it ?     

Thats one other reason why I ordered Glynns Vac equipment today rather than use the C/F sections of which I have plenty of.

[Glyn H]

Alex
My statement is totally factual.
It is most suprising that you were not aware that carbon fibre poles also contains a percentage of glass fibre and epoxy resin filler and that the heavier the pole the more glass fibre and resin content and it then follows a pole with more fibre glass is cheaper to produce.

[Glyn H]

Hi Crystal Clear
Ionics Upkeeper is a petrol powered machine that is built in the USA by Upkeeper and imported into the UK to be sold by Ionics so their costs are greater.
The machines are also completly different in construction and design our being a more traditional vac in apperance and the upkeeper being based on a leaf sweeping grounds maintenance machine.

[Alex Gardiner]

Alex
My statement is totally factual.
It is most suprising that you were not aware that carbon fibre poles also contains a percentage of glass fibre and epoxy resin filler and that the heavier the pole the more glass fibre and resin content and it then follows a pole with more fibre glass is cheaper to produce.

Glyn - I am well aware of the content of carbon fibre poles. Having designed two poles from the ground up, using carbon fibre and composite materials, we are fairly well aware of the make up and technology behind a section of carbon fibre tube.  The carbon fibre technology in both of our latest poles we feel is some of the most advanced carbon fibre technology available in the world.  Some of the sections on the SL2 are not pure carbon fibre but have other composite materials in their make up. This has been specifically designed this way to provide superior strength and knock resistance where it really counts.

My comments about you being less than factual were to do with your blanket statement that the Emporium poles were better quality than the SL2.

[Glyn H]

The carbon fibre technology in both of our latest poles we feel is some of the most advanced carbon fibre technology available in the world

If this is even partually correct then you are missing out on literally  billions of pounds in sales in the aerospace industry. I feel you should fully research the Health and Safety aspects of the use of carbon fibre poles in vacuming situations.


• Global sales of carbon fibre reinforced plastics
(CFRPs) are estimated to be $9.9 billion in 2006, rising
to $13.6 billion by 2010. By 2025, global sales of
CFRPs will be over $25 billion a year
• The global demand for carbon fibre tow in 2006 is
estimated to be 27,000 tonnes, and will rise to 34,000
tonnes by 2010
• The global end-use demand for carbon fibre (in 2006)
is aerospace/defence 28%, industrial 50% (including
infrastructure, wind power and oil and gas) and sports
goods 22%
• Europe now accounts for 30% of the world consumption
of carbon fibre tow, with North America at 35%,
Japan at 15% and the rest of the world at 20%
• Carbon fibre manufacturers will invest $820 million
between 2005 and 2008 to increase carbon fibre
capacity by 78%
• The two major aircraft manufacturers – Airbus and
Boeing – are forecast to account for 15-20% of the
worldwide small tow carbon fibre usage by 2010
• Worldwide, small tow carbon fibre capacity is forecast
to increase from 29,750 tonnes in 2006 to 40,600
tonnes by 2008, a huge increase of 36%. By 2008,
Japan will produce 46% of the world’s small tow
carbon fibre, USA will produce 28%, Europe 19% and
the rest of the world 7%.
• The global capacity for large tow carbon fibre will
increase from 10,300 tonnes in 2006 to 18,800 tonnes
by 2010
• Pitch-based carbon fibre capacity will increase from
1,380 tonnes in 2006 to 2,480 tonnes by 2010

[Nathanael Jones]

Emporium are correct....... BUT.... The SL2 is a better quality pole

 I realise that you now have a vested interest in Emporium poles so will be keen in defending them,

What interest does Glyn have in emporium exactly???

I've been reading this thread with interest for a while now,... and feel its time to jump in with my very own bitchy remark!

The difference in attitudes from certain participants here are huge!

Glyn, you seem to be putting every idea down with blanket remarks and extreme negativity, and don't appear to have taken the time to even consider the possibility of carbon fibre poles being a viable alternative, now or in the future?

Alex, while defending your product as is only right, you have managed to keep your remarks positive and helpful,.. something I've always appreciated and enjoyed about your posts.

If the same attitudes are applied to after sales service (and I'm not saying/implying that they do!),... I know where I'd buy from.


I cleaned some gutters today,.. and as has been the case with nearly every gutter I've cleaned, the debris were mostly moss, leaves, soil etc etc,.... soft & non-abrasive. Also it's normally wet,.. water is a natural lubricant and what little "toxic carbon fibre dust" is produced would be suppressed by the moisture. Besides, any good quality vac would have a filter to stop dust escaping wouldn't it?

[Glyn H]

Nathanael
My negativity is based on nine/ten years experiance of carbon fibre and fibre glass tubes, up until two years ago we both assembled and built  both fibre glass and carbon fibre poles, I dont believe Alex has ever been involved in this work as his poles are supplied ready made.

Cutting and  repairing either material is hazardous and extraction equipment is an HSE essentual to remove the airbourne dust from the work place. If you have ever used a worn fibreglass tube then you will have felt the effect on your hands just imagine what that dust is doing to your lungs.

[Wayne Thomas]

I would rather pay the extra and use equipment that has been tried and tested knowing that my health is not in jeopardy. You can't put a price on health.
Whilst Glyn may come across as having a negative mannerism, he has our health interests at heart.
It's all very well experimenting with DIY poles, brush heads and gutter vac systems to save a few pounds but the majority of people will probably end up paying far more after having experimented with alternatives and have spent a lot of time and frustration trying to achieve their main aim of trying to save money.
Window cleaning using WFP is a good earner so I would rather use my time more economically by cleaning windows then fluffing around experimenting with DIY job lots to pay for equipment that someone else has tried & tested for my/our benefits.

[Ian Curtis]

There is defintely a 'Gardiner Pole Worship' on this forum. All other suppliers get slated, no wonder you don't hear from Ionics and others. In fact, you could say that this forum serves Gardniers more than it does express cleaning!