[liahona]

Shaun, very close as always in your comments, well most of the time he says with a smile.

Simon, I understand what you are trying to say but be careful in what you assume. Try not to read between the lines cos you may just miss the lines that have the words in.

 I have never said now or on any of my posts about any ability I have or have not to do with carpet cleaning.

My comments are always based in general that on the whole, we as carpet cleaners dont charge enough for our services.

And £1:25 a square yard generally isnt enough, generally.

As to if I want work, sometimes yes.

Do I need work, sometimes yes.

Will I do work for £1:25, no, never.

Nothing wrong with that.

Simon, I shouldnt assume as you have done but lets say I do and I assume that you are good at what you do.  Very good maybe, the best maybe.

 Now go and charge your next client more than you normally would.  Or charge  the same client more the next time.

If they pay you to do the job at the higher price then it is you that they want as their cleaner.  If they dont then it is the price that they are interested in and not you or your company.  This what creates competition. 

I seek for the first, that it is me they want and not the price.  This then affords me to charge a higher price and so I make myself non competitive.

Hope this makes sense, best, Dave.

[Shaun_Ashmore]

For all of the money you spend on your specialist cleaing system shouldn't you be paid a specialist price?

If the fund managers are blown away by the demo then you should be able to get more towards a high figure than £1.25 a metre, only trouble is the onger you have been in the game the more you think "I can't charge that!", look at the Bank managers that go onto Fast Track, they go in with a porti with a smidgen of your experience and quote double and get these jobs because they are full of themelves.

A great demo, a friendly but professional chat and a verbal then email quote all in a quick space of time so you look to be on the ball and perhaps a bit of 'balls' and you've double your profit.

Shaun

[Simon Gerrard]

No disrespect to anyone but clearly you guy's don't have much experience of the world of commercial carpet cleaning, either that or you think a couple of hundred yards of office carpet equals a commercial job. You are trying to apply the parameters that apply in the domestic market to the commercial market.
There are no cosy chats with the Facilities Managers, you are shown the job, you get to ask your questions about access, time available for the job etc etc and off you trot.  Yes, sure, when you call on a domestic customer you might well end up having a chat over a cup of tea and have your chance to charm her into a high price sale, but it just isn't like that in commercial. Like I keep on saying, these guy's know the going rate for what they want done and most often will be seeking a minimum of three quotes. You try and charge them two and three times the going rate and they'll simply laugh at your quote and book the guy that got the price right.

Earning £440 per hour at £1.25 psm is hardly got to put anyone into poverty. Most people would kill to have the opportunity to earn that much in a day, let alone an hour.
Simon

[COLIN BRIGHT]

yes you're right Shaun.................i'll name that tune in............

[Mike Osbourne]

This is a really interesting thread and just shows you can be very successful with differing approaches to CC.

The question I'd ask is who else does acres and acres of commercial per job and charges double what Simon does? If there is then it proves you can do it. If there isn't it hasn't been done yet.

There is also more to lose to test out the high side. Adding even 10% to Simon's quotes is a lot of dosh and if he loses the job or worse contract that's big money.

The other thing is what's the differential in price between contracts you get and what your competition were going to charge (ifyou can find out). If it's the same and you got the business it shows you could do better.

[Doctor Carpet (Ret'd)]

I'm really enjoying this thread and if anybody watched "The Apprentice" last night on BBC1 (repeated on BBCi for 7 days later) then this topic was amply illustrated by the Girls Team's approach to pricing the cleaning of laundry.

For those who missed it, they pitched for the cleaning of a hotel's laundry and decided to pitch at £4.99 per item. This would have meant a bill of £4999 when the hotel's normal bill for such a level of cleaning was £200. So as Simon says you have to understand market pricing. (BTW their unique selling point was that the hotel could have access to a 24 hour hot line to follow the progress of the laundry .)The girls then went to a small restaurant and pitched for about 60 items of laundry and were prepared to do it all for £10. (Way too cheap as the owner wouldn't believe there was no catch. The girls boosted the price to £15 by saying they would iron it!!!!). So as Dave says, extreme underselling, as they were desperate to generate income rather than understand the value of their service.

Turning to specifics. People ask me if I would expand my business and take on other workers etc. No, is the answer. Many reasons but amongst them probably I would not be very good at delegation/management but predominately because my clients are buying me as an individual and what I stand for. They are not buying "Doctor Carpet" and are prepared to pay a premium for me as opposed to paying a premium for Doctor Carpet and then not getting the Head Honcho.

As such I could probably charge even more but like Shaun says there does come a point when you think "I can't possibly charge that" because it you were to reverse matters and make yourself a client commissioning a carpet cleaner and then worked out the hourly rate you would certainly be thinking and asking many more questions before simply giving the go-ahead for the work. I'm not saying you shouldn't charge it, it's just a case of becoming aware of perceptions.

[Simon Gerrard]

You can't have one fixed price for commercial cleaning. We will go as low as £1.25 but higher depending on the size of the job and the state of the carpets. There has to be flexibility in your pricing because you are competing for the business, the client has made sure of that by inviting at least two other companies to quote for the same job.

If you've worked for the client before and your quoting for a new or repeat job you have to decide whether to charge more this time because this time they are buy YOU, or do you pay more homage to the fact that they have stuck with you and so quote them at the same rate as before. They may well be buying YOU but they are not just buying YOU the person, it's you, the quality of your work, the level of service given AND the price. Don't think for a split second that once you get your feet under the table you can then charge whatever you like because that is commercial suicide.
That said, you do over the years collect a certain number of customers who will have you at any price and to one extent or another we all have customers like that, but let them get the slightest whiff of greed or complacency and you're out.

Simon

[Doctor Carpet (Ret'd)]

Agreed

[cjultra]

Adding to this 1.25 per square metre or square yard can differ quite alot if this pricing is used for commercial work. It either works out to:
13.88888 pence per sq ft if priced from 1.25 per sq yrd  OR
11.61289 pence per sq ft if priced from 1.25 per sq mtr

Therefore this can make alot of difference when quoting for a large premises.

As Simon states, there's different charges for all types of carpet cleaning and this can depend on many factors:

Type of carpet fibre
Is the carpet loom or tile
Is there adequate ventilation
Size of job
Is the floor empty
Does the floor have lots of items to move incl. personal items under workstations
Is the floor clean or filthy
Has is been left for many years without cleaning
Chemicals utilised
large amounts of gum
Incorporating charges for vacuum cleaning and drying

More can be added to the list, but it's some things that need to be taken into account.

Simon's job that takes him 3.5 hours to clean 1,243 sq. yrds or mtrs enables him to clean properly, using the best equipment to offer great end results and take less time to complete the work. If on the other hand it was an office that had been badly vacuumed for 5+ years, never been CC'd before will require 5 times more work/labour involved, more chemicals but not neccessarily be able to charge 5 times more for the work.

I had a Client that added up the charge and divide it by the coverage and men that were on site and thought it quite expensive. Maybe he'd prefer a line of a dozen workers paid minimum wage, given a bucket of chemical and brush to clean the carpet and take 10 times longer, yet find it normal for a plumber to charge 180.00 to unblock 2 urinals that took 20 minutes to carry out.

[david_green]

Hi Simon

The figures you quote for the restaurant are for how many technicians?

Thanks

[ian loughlin]

SO... going back to my original question, how much to charge for commercial.

I would be right in saying    15p sq ft   is a good medium, which can raise or lower depending on the specific job.

[liahona]

Ian, yes 15p a foot for commercial is a good start.

Simon, if its that cut throat as you are suggesting and I am not saying that it is or isnt, then find different clients.

I hardly ever quote a job, maybe 1 out of 20 jobs.  Accordingly I as I have said before  dont have any competiton.  If I had competition I would imagine I would lose out on most every job I do. 

So, I seek out those that just want it done by who has been recommended, no question of price really or at least very rarely.

Not that I havent been where you are at, work wise or price wise but learned very quickly to find better clients.

On the whole, those clients both domestic and commecial that want to pay less or pay cheep, I dont want as a client.  So I go find those that I do want as a client.

A few on here have taken some advice of mine and have put their prices up for no reason whatsoever.  They didnt get any or much or a refusal from the client and so everyone is happy.  Client is happy with the job done and the cleaner is happy for making a little bit more than HE or SHE had thought was the price it should be.

A lot on here suggest that me or anyone charging a high price is ripping off the customer.    My answer to that is for those cleaners who go in too cheep are allowing themseves to be ripped off by their own customer.

I just wont allow a client to do that to me and nor should you.  What you get for the said restaurant is a lot of money I dont contest.  Its just that for the amount of carpet you have to clean, you are being ripped off.  If you are happy with that then thats fine.  Me, no chance.

Best, Dave

[Simon Gerrard]

Dave,
How on earth can you be being ripped off by a client that is paying you over £400 per hour to clean their carpet, that's absolutely preposterous because at that earn rate it's tantamount to printing money and you want me to dump them and find a client that will pay me even more. I think your inexperience at this level is beginning to shine through, but I do respect where you're coming from but you simply cannot screw large commercial clients in the way that perhaps you can with smaller clients because. Like I keep saying these people know how much things cost and what the going rate is for a particular service.

Ian,
You have to decide what a commercial job is. What I mean by that is you have to sort out where domestic jobs turn into small commercial, I mean yardage wise.
If your domestic rate is £2.50 you begin to discount down from that for the bigger jobs, until you get to £1.25 which I would suggest should only apply when your approaching say the  700 - 1,000 yard mark.
You then have to take into account how much you want / need the job, how long it is likely to take based on what equipment and manpower you have and that has to be balanced against the clients time frame for the job to be done.
If you need any help or advice you can email me anytime.

Simon

[Karl Wildey]

I think you are all missing the point Simon has raised. He is charging £1.25 and doing massive job for it, and making £400+ a hour, what ever way you argue the point, he is making 400+ a hour, so he is doing something right. You may get away with £2.50 but it will be for smaller areas and no way near the 400 mark.

I charge £1.40 - 3.00 depending on job and its size

[liahona]

Simon, this of course could go back and forwards so I will just make one more comment.  Actually two.

One, dont think about what my experiences may or may not be as you have no idea what it is I do or how it is I do it.

You have made it quite clear what you do and how it is you do it so it is fair for people, me included to make a comment.

The second is your comment on being ripped off or not by your charges.  Again the 400 an hour sounds good but for the amount of carpet you have had to clean is just not enough.  So in my opinion which is just that I wouldnt do it.

I would perhaps be more inclined to accept the 400 an hour if I was working by myself but with all your beliefs in the I think RX 20 and your multi-person crew to operate them it is your client that is taking the mickey.

If I had that amount of yardidge to clean I would only work on average one or 2 days a week, oh yeah, thats what I do and for far more than what your restaurant is paying.  I will correct that, if I had that yardidge I would only work one day a month.  Each to their own and from what I can see you have a very successful business, but damn do you have to clean a lot of carpet for it.

Best, Dave.

P.S.  How many people were needed to clean the restaurant.  I know it has aleady been asked but I dont think you have replied.....

[Simon Gerrard]

Dave,

Three.

Simon

[Simon Gerrard]

Dave,
Clearly we come to this particular conversation from two completely different perspectives, you think my clients are ripping me of for only paying me £400+ per hour whereas I think you're ripping your clients off by charging £400 for just one man. But Dave if you can get that sort of money then hats off to you my friend.
Nice sharing views with you, no hard feelings I hope?

Simon

[M.Acorn]

£2.75 per sq m
I was pricing up the jobs on this rate then would do a discount on the total didn`t get any of the jobs i discounted ! since i have stopped doing a discount i have got the last 4 com jobs i have priced ! booked 1 today small nursery want it doing twice a year £300 a time.with the com jobs it comes out of their tax so in effect they are not paying for it !

[ZampaWall]

with the com jobs it comes out of their tax so in effect they are not paying for it !

Some people are so disillusioned with this, nothing comes out of thier tax. It comes out of the companies profits. It will reduce thier tax liability by a small amount 20 - 40 %,  but will reduce thier profits by 80 - 60 % (on the cost of the job) and if a PLC then even more profits lost

[liahona]

Simon, likewise and of course not, never any hard feelings.

Best, Dave.