[Steve Chapman]

you shouldn't really use the word 'hot' because what you really mean is 'warm'

hot water does make a difference but warm doesn't, you might as well use cold.

that why people say " i used hot water & cold, there's is'nt really any difference' that because they are really using warm water.

the QCs with hot water scold your arms and leave blisters.

Surely tho using cold water vastly increases drying times?

i wouldn've thought even slightly raising the temp would be a benefit, after all most customers are interested in how quickly the carpet dries, i know you can use air movers as well but thats just making more work for yourself


regards
steve

[gwrightson]

Steve,
have you got that the right way round ?

"using hot water increases drying times"   surly the other way round

geoff

[stevegunn]

John Kelly did a little experiment with hot and cold water,it wasn't very scientific but it showed hot penetrated the fibres better which meant a better clean and it dried quicker than the cold water section

[Steve Chapman]

whoops yeah meant vastly reduces drying times  :

thanks geoff

steve

[Doug Holloway]

Hi Guys

Haven't used the Scorpion myself so can't comment.

However I can comment on the advantages of hot water of which there are many.

Chemicals are more active due to increased molecular energy.

Greasy/fatty dirt is softened / melted.

Faster drying time due to more molecular energy again.

Lower surace tension.

As I have said many times before the laws of Physics are not altered by marketing hype becsuse they are mathematically proven, that is why they are laws .

Cheers

Doug

[*paul_moss]

Doug its not just chemistry laws but good old common sence. If you clean any thing with hot water it is quicker and cleans easier/better than cold or warm water.
You can use cold water to clean. No doubts about that, and M/S are fine to use cold. BUTTT for optimum performance,drying etc hot water works best and produces best results.

Try cleaning the greasy dishes at home with cold water and detergent.
Then try cleaning them in hot water and detergent.
You dont even need to try that bcause common sence and experience will tell you what cleans better and quicker. 

[stevegunn]

Plus the machine doesn't come with built in heater so supplier is going to tell it works without one, its all marketing

[Doug Holloway]

Hi Paul, Steve.

I agree and something worth bearing in mind when designing websites, leaflets etc that our customers have common sense too.

If we write or copy psuedo scientific tosh this will put them off.


Cheers

Doug

[Shaun_Ashmore]

Before Xmas i was using a cold water only TM and it dried carpets faster, I couldn't believe it but I came to the conclusion that the cold water wasn't penetrating the fibres, the feel of the just cleaned carpet wasn't as good or a bouncy, when i got back to heat I noticed the difference but the real thing is that even with the same MS and aggitate I was leaving a far softer carpet.

Shaun

[stevegunn]

John Kelly did a little experiment with hot and cold water,it wasn't very scientific but it showed hot penetrated the fibres better which meant a better clean and it dried quicker than the cold water section

Shaun already said that

[*paul_moss]

Hi Paul, Steve.

I agree and something worth bearing in mind when designing websites, leaflets etc that our customers have common sense too.

If we write or copy psuedo scientific tosh this will put them off.


Cheers

Doug

Doug cant quite work out if your giving advice or having a dig.
Would you like to expand further.

[Joe H]

Dont want to start a debate over hot or cold water extraction - its been wacked out on here too many times
BUT
there are c.cleaners that have achieved very good cleans without the use of warm or hot.
there are others, like me, who have done it but prefer to use warm water from tap (mind thing like I said)
Might seem impossible to you at the moment to use cold water and get a result but its been done by respected carpet cleaners - you will just have to try it.

Yep, I was positive I wrote something around 11-20 this morning but here we are again........

[Doug Holloway]

Hi Paul

It was a bit rambling, wasn't meant as a dig , it's not really my style.

I was trying to bring together a couple of threads, whilst trying to cook dinner.

Joe

We  cannot really discuss the merits of a machine if we ignore it's drawbacks and the Scorpion uses it's avaialble power to produce a high vacuum and pump pressure,  by portable standards.

Other machines use the available power to heat water which will loosen dirt more effectively thereby requiring less vacuum/water.

All other things being equal heat will give a better clean, obviously other variables such as agiatation will also have an effect.

You are coming to the CCDO, I will discuss if you or others wish.

Ultimately you pays your money you makes your choice.

Cheers

Doug

[Joe H]

Hi,
I went to the Solutions stain removal course on Monday, they had a Scorpion set up..  I asked the guy if it came with a heater, he told me it is an extra but most dont use it as it such a powerful machine?
Just wondering what the Scorpion users on here thought..

Doug, I am not disagreeing with you but the original thread started by DaveP is quoted above.
A few Scorpion owners replied and most, if not all, said they prefer to use warm/hot water but the indications were they have achieved good results with cold.
but then it turns, again, into the debate of hot v cold.

Yes I will be at CCDO and look forward to meeting you and all the others I "talk" with but never met.
CARPEX comes first on the calender and I am planning to attend on the Friday so may meet some there

[Doug Holloway]

Joe

As with most topics the discussion broadened, thats what happens on free forums.

Cheers

Doug

[*paul_moss]

Joe you getting a bit touchy to night mate.

[Ian Gourlay]

In my wish list I had a new machine

Scorpion

Because I respect Ed and John , plus Nick for taking a company from nowhere to some where. But when i cross examined on  Cleantalk i gathered it was not the extra vac but two inch pipe that made most diffrence to performance.

extra vac appears to be at expense of heat.

being old fashined I think heat is part of cleaning pie.

If I make Carpex I will know ask ahbys about Two inch hose

Alltec  alledgley bringing a new portable  to Carpex/

If I make Mini Day out I will look at restormate range but not keen on truckmount as you have to buy fuel instead of customer  and if time is of n essense you an always fill portable with hose in garden and not unload.

[Joe H]

Hi Ian
Your right in saying the 2" hose makes a difference
BUT
if I dont switch the 3rd vac on you notice a massive loss
so I cant agree that the 3rd vac is their at the expense of heat.
If you at CCDO you may be able to test for yourself.

[Ian Gourlay]

 I like a bit of contravsey

[*paul_moss]

Dont forget Joe has had this machine a short time after a CFR machine. Cant wait to see his face on CCDO when he has a go of a truck