[Buster Ingram]

Common sense will tell us it is impossible to draw air through leather. Using a hair dryer will do the same thing but take a lot longer.

[LTT Leathercare]

Thats fine but it will not extract the grease and nor will Ultra Clean so I cannot see the point nor the affect it will have.
The grease is in the leather and has to be extracted out with degreasers.
What is the point of vacuuming.

Using a hairdryer to heat the area will quicken the release of the grease and a heater can be used to quicken the whole process.

[Buster Ingram]

Liable is not a word I'm famiular with Judy,  25 yrs in the business and never had to use that one yet nor the  word re-upholstery.
Just plain old repair and recolour. It all about knowing your limitations when you take on cleaning and repairing leather.
.

[LTT Leathercare]

Couldn't agree more Dave, problem being that some people don't think there are any limitations!!!!!!

[*paul_moss]

What an emotional subject leather can be 

Some people do get excited.
I agree with Judy in terms of extraction and would not find it would do any good on any leather clean,it is totally different from cleaning flock ( Judy do calm down love )

The only way of releasing grease wheather it is flock or leather and that is by heavy ph detergent or for faster results solvents.

Some suppliers charge a great deal for solvent grease removers but there are other industries that use thse type of solvent & solvent sprays for other things and are far far cheaper.Just do a search on ebay for cans of solvent grease removers and you will see you can get 6 cans for about £10 that will solve this type of problem. But as stated above this type of job takes quite a while to complete and people often will not pay your fee.

As I said earlir Mike unless they are prepared to pay good money, then walk. Stick to pigmented leather in our game its easier and quicker to do and makes you more money 

[Mike Roper]

I think you could clean the surface grease off wiyh a CFR  tool ,but not drag any out of the leather. The only other thing I could think of is a method similar to wax removal from fabric etc - brown paper and iron on low setting .
Not advocating this just thinking out loud.
Mike

[LTT Leathercare]

I do not agree Paul, there is far more money to be made restoring aniline leathers.  The methods are straight forward and the results are fantastic.  As people have generally paid much more for aniline style leathers than pigmented leather they are more prepared to pay premium rates to have it fixed.

If you take the suite away to a workshop you can work on several at a time as a lot of time is spent waiting for the degreaser to do its job therfore costs can be reduced.
Basic aniline restoration work (that does not involve degreasing etc.) can be done with care in the customers house and again the results are great, this market is very lucrative and should not be passed up.  There are a lot more risks with pigments than there are aniline leathers.

There always seems to be a confusion between what is cleaning and what is restoration.  The sort of job that Mike has is not a cleaning job.

The whole point about using leather safe and tested products is that the suppliers (in most cases) will be able to give you technical help with the products if required, using any old product may cause problems that you will have no back up from

[*paul_moss]

Mike this is only done to turn the wax from a solid into liquid for ease of removal.Grease in this case is already in liquid form and although heat will excellorate removal an iron could do more damage than good.

But nice idea, its good to see people thinking outside the box

[*paul_moss]

Judy I totaly agree with what you say.

The point you are missing is this one.

You are on a carpet cleaning forum

We are not specialist cleaners, but general upholstery cleaners.

98% of jobs we come across are pigmented leather.

Out of that around 75% is cheap pigmented leather or customers that will not pay big money.

Your leather training and expertise is more for the specialist industry of leather cleaners and repairs and not for the day to day stuff that we come up against which needs doing as quick as we can for the best result and price.

[LTT Leathercare]

Mike this method could work quite well and an iron would certainly not do any harm (we have used this many times on chocolate) but it would be fairly labour intensive and leaving a degreaser to do the job would be quicker and more effective.

[*paul_moss]

There always seems to be a confusion between what is cleaning and what is restoration.  The sort of job that Mike has is not a cleaning job.

Judy that is why I keep telling Mike to walk from it. In our line of work this type of job is not cost effective.

[LTT Leathercare]

Paul I am perfectly aware of what the forum is for but as most carpet cleaners are also upholstery cleaners and between 60 - 70% of upholstered furniture is leather then it is the right pace for us to be.

I am not getting excited Paul, Iam putting a point across quite calmly and rationally but you seem to object to the fact that I contradict you.

We certainly do not train for a specialist industry we train for every day cleaning the quickest and safest way possible.  We have reduced the time that leather cleaning takes over the past year from 3-4 hours to about 1.5 hours due to the correct use of products and systems, thus prices can be reduced for those that are unwilling to pay.

We do not knock people finding quicker ways to clean leather as long as they are using leather safe products and are aware of the problems that may be encountered (even more so if they do not use leather safe products)  I can expand on this if you want?

The leather market is constantly changing and products and techniques need to move on and be developed accordingly.  The days of single colour pigmented leather are over and there is a great need for correct leather identifiaction and awareness of problems that can be encountered (this is especially so with all the misinformation that is now flying about)

[LTT Leathercare]

Paul

It is no good upsetting the customer then by telling her it is a right off when the problem can be fixed.  When people have done training they should know their own limits but be prepared to give the customer a soluiton to the problem not just upset them, surely this is not good customer service

[*paul_moss]

Judy were did I upset the customer ?

Where is the poor customer service?

And re your prievoius post its you that actually contradicts every body else 

[*paul_moss]

Judy
you say
We certainly do not train for a specialist industry we train for every day cleaning the quickest and safest way possible.  We have reduced the time that leather cleaning takes over the past year from 3-4 hours to about 1.5 hours due to the correct use of products and systems, thus prices can be reduced for those that are unwilling to pay.

Speaking to guys that have done your leather cleaning course 3 years ago or 2 years ago or last year to present day, there has been do difference in your cleaning format/practices. So how have you managed to reduce the cleaning times down by half/third?

[Shaun_Ashmore]

As per usual it's turned into a them and us thing, I should have took pictures to show what I did that would have proved it but these real world results are more practical then theory.

Shaun

[Joe H]

Is it like this...

I clean carpets, I also clean rugs, but I dont clean carpets and rugs that are too technical for me ie the Dave Lihona/ Paul King type cleaning - the oriental type stuff.
Why - cause I am happy just cleaning "normal" carpets and rugs even though their may be big money in the special stuff.

I clean leather suites, and like cleaning leather, but I dont want to go down the road of doing the restoration type stuff even though there may be big money.

So I can see pauls viewpoint to Mike - walk away - and I can see Judys viewpoint - satisfy the customer.

Thing is if I walk away then the customer probably wont get the result, but I dont really feel i can do it.
Pity there isnt a formal database of who has what skills and then wee could pass the job on to someone near.
Ye sI know Paul has the skill but he is 45 mile from me - problem is I dont know if anyone nearer.

[Ben Staerck]

Thats fine but it will not extract the grease and nor will Ultra Clean so I cannot see the point nor the affect it will have.

Why say that when you haven't tried it yourself?

I told you that I did it and it worked. Shaun told you that he did it and it worked as well. So why after reading both of these would you say it couldn't work?

You are very ignorant in this situation. Just becuase Andy couldn't make it work, doesn't mean it cannot.

 The ultra clean disolves the grease and the machine draws it to the surface and/or out of the leather completely. This method works perfectly on unfinished leathers, it also works on finished leathers but it is harder work, for finished leathers we have developed a similar method.

[*paul_moss]

Joe the point I am making is more like this.

Mike would be able to do this but would take him lots of visits and time or he could take the suite away if he had a work shop but again more time involved. In terms of the value of the suite and what the customer is prepared to pay then the job does not stack up unless Mike wants to earn £5 per hour.

By telling the customer the job is not viable is not bad customer service..

By telling the customer that the job can be done, but will cost aound £350 to do or £600 to reupholster is not bad customer service.
This is more of giving expectations and options to the customer.

My point to Mike of "walk" from it, is based on the fact that he could earn £1000 doing other work in the time it would take him  to complete this job, so in my view and my view only ,I would walk from it unless the price was right, but I bet this customer would not pay that sort of money.
Hard line, yes but I am in business to make money.
And as Shaun says "in the real world".

[Joe H]

Bedtime everybody.