[jeff1]

I can't find the link at the moment but when you buy a backpack for window cleaning, you will find that they are not guaranteed by the manufacturer, Why I can only presume its because of the amount of use we give them? And yet they are listed under agriculture products, http://www.shurflo.com/pages/new_industrial/industrial/agriculture/subcategories/ProPack.html

Is it because they think we work harder than farmers? I doubt it, you can be sure as soon as I find the link, I will be making direct contact with the manufactures to find out why were exempt from the guarantee, they have no problems taking our money or the suppliers money, if this is the case, shouldn't someone give us a guarantee? Even if it is a suppliers guarantee, I strongly believe if there taking our money then they should replace a faulty item within the 12 month period, I do understand that some suppliers will replace it, but again why should they be the looser if a faulty product is returned?

I have had 14 months trouble free use from my backpack so I'm lucky, but other unfortunate guy's have had problems.
I for one wouldn't hesitate taking someone to the small claims court if I had this problem and leave it for a judge to decide, after all how many of you guy's were told, Yes we'll sell you one but it won't be guaranteed?

I read somewhere that the reason is, that we use pure water? I can't seem to get my head around this point, is pure water more aggressive than weed killers and other insecticides? Ask me if I would happily stick my hand into a bucket of pure water, and the answer would be yes, but ask me to do it to a bucket of weed killer or other insecticide and you would be given a different answer.

My own personal opinion to this is, I don't think the equipment is man enough for the constant use we give them, nothing to do with what is run through them.

When I converted my switch so it was at the top of the BP, I had to remove the Printed circuit board (PCB) and where the PCB was not fully covered by the resin coating it has, I could see some of the components.

Now being an Ex- electronics engineer, I could see they used the cheapest components available, for example resistors are available with different tolerance's from 20% right up to to 1% the cheapest being 20% I'll give you 1 guess as to which ones are used on the boards?

If companies like surflo are willing to take the money from our suppliers then I strongly believe they should give our suppliers a guarantee and not leave the burden on our supplier's,
The amount of topics I have seen over this past week regarding faulty PCB's (and this is on some fairly new BP's) I think the manufacturers should get there act together and help our suppliers to help us, after all one day someone will find an alternative way keep us mobile and a BP will be a thing of the past.

[Pole2pole]

Bloody hell jeff.............have you been spliffing up again?     

[jeff1]

I like to stand up for my own and fellow workers legal rights.

[Pole2pole]

As you should young Jeff. Glad i aint the only one home and dry this time of day. I was startin to feel bad  I finish before the kids do,lol. Should i feel bad about that or look upon it as a sign of positivity and proof that i aint a slave to the 9 til 5?

[jeff1]

Your the BOSS  thats how I look at it?

[Pole2pole]

Will you tell that to my Mrs Jeff.....She's still under the impression that she is. And if she gives you any sh*t just admit defeat. It works for me 

[jeff1]

Thats why I call my Mrs the BOSS 

[Old_Master]

Jeff
You may recall Northern Tools also refused to garantee claims from window cleaners for their range of Shurflo pumps a few years ago.

Both Shurflo and Flojet had to produce a pump specifically for window cleaners because of so many claims.

There are a few seperate  issues here.
The pump manufacturers produce and sell 10s of thousands of pumps for all kinds of industry every year.
It appears many if not most of the claims they have come from Window Cleaners ( which to a pump manufacturer is a very small amount of the actual users), their could be several reasons for this, firstly many other industries consider a pump a cheap and disposable item if it breaks down in a few months then they simply change it and throw it away and fit a new one as it has earned its keep and to produce a claim with all the administration costs involved would cost them much more than the cost of a new pump.

The 12 month guarantee on backpacks is for as you rightly point out for Agricultural, Horticultural use, this use will be for spraying herbicides or pesticides which is only carried out during the growing seasons March through to October and even then for only a few hours a day.

Up until a few years ago I also ran a grounds maintenance company in which we used a quantity of commercial lawn mowers each at a  cost from over £1200.00 each these were guranteed for 12 months but this guarantee was not for commercial contractors because contractors such as ourselves used them more in a single day than a normal user would use in a month.

[G Griffin]

I read somewhere that the cheaper BPs from USA (e-bay I think) didn`t have a warranty. People were warned about this and told it would be better to buy from over here to get  one.
 Is this then pointless and would it be better to just get the cheaper USA version?

                     Gerry.

[jouk45]

yes your right gerry, we may as well just buy from ebay now, we would be mugs to pay more cash for the same thing we can get for £120 from the states, and they are the same backpacks not cheaper versions, and the best bit is if you buy 2 of them, it almost works out what you pay for just 1 here, omnipoles backpack is a completly diffrent story, i may even get one of their 100psi backpacks next time,

[steve m]

I would have thought it depends on whats gone wrong. If its the pump, send it back to the pump manufacterers, if its the battery, ........... The only thing I would have thought you'd send the whole thing back for would be the p.c.b.

[jeff1]

Jeff
You may recall Northern Tools also refused to garantee claims from window cleaners for their range of Shurflo pumps a few years ago.

Both Shurflo and Flojet had to produce a pump specifically for window cleaners because of so many claims.

There are a few seperate  issues here.
The pump manufacturers produce and sell 10s of thousands of pumps for all kinds of industry every year.
It appears many if not most of the claims they have come from Window Cleaners ( which to a pump manufacturer is a very small amount of the actual users), their could be several reasons for this, firstly many other industries consider a pump a cheap and disposable item if it breaks down in a few months then they simply change it and throw it away and fit a new one as it has earned its keep and to produce a claim with all the administration costs involved would cost them much more than the cost of a new pump.

The 12 month guarantee on backpacks is for as you rightly point out for Agricultural, Horticultural use, this use will be for spraying herbicides or pesticides which is only carried out during the growing seasons March through to October and even then for only a few hours a day.

Up until a few years ago I also ran a grounds maintenance company in which we used a quantity of commercial lawn mowers each at a  cost from over £1200.00 each these were guranteed for 12 months but this guarantee was not for commercial contractors because contractors such as ourselves used them more in a single day than a normal user would use in a month.

Thanks for your  in depth reply Glyn, very much appreciated.

I do understand what your saying with regards to pumps and that both Shurflo and Flojet reacted to our industrie and built a pump that was suited for the Job, but I expect this was the 80-100psi range of pumps, if they have taken this on board, then why can't they produce a pump that is capable of withstanding the operation some of our fellow w/c  put them through? With a backpack? They have the technology, tooling and skill to do it.

I personally have been very lucky with my backpack, but some guy's have had theres less than a week or two and at £200 a shot with no guarantee this has to be a joke?

If my pump or board was to bust tomorrow, I am in a position like many others to replace them straight away, but there are some guy's on here, who sink the few bob they have into a backpack in the hope of getting a business up and running or simply abiding by the H&S and its for guy's like this who couldn't afford to replace it straight away if at all, I intend to ask the manufacturers for an account as to why they won't give a guarantee on there product but are willing to take our money.

If you read any advert for a backpack they give the impression on how good there product is, Normally we as a buyer have to read the small print to see if there are any disclaimers? But these adverts don't even have any small print let a loan disclaimers.
I for one  am going to try and fight for the guy's who use backpacks, I want the manufacturers to either get the product right for the possible use a w/c will give it, or I want it printed on all backpack adverts, that the product is unsuitable for w/c, If I have to fight on my own then I will.

Large manufacturers can't have there cake and eat it, they can't continue to take the money and then put the responsibility onto the supplier who often has to foot the repair bill on behalf of the end user.

[wightsurf]

I think a guaranteed in the eyes of the law is it must last the time given for the use it was made ,WITHOUT MAKING ANY CHANGES TO IT. On the back back i got i had to cut the lance off then put a connector in it's place.Good bye guarantee.

Just my views

Martin

[jouk45]

 what about the suppliers who adapt the backpack ready set up for wfp, becouse they made the changes are they held responcible for the guarantee,

[Paul Coleman]

Bloody hell jeff.............have you been spliffing up again?     

I suppose you could adapt the backpack to use as a bong.

[Pole2pole]

my backpack off ebay was a non starter from the word go. A hole in the bottom and the pump was mullered too. So i took off what was good with it and put it on my old on. I emailed them and told them i had received a total dud. It would have cost a me a fair whack to return it but we amicably agreed that when i need "another" one,he'll sort me out a significant discount. He couldn't have been much more legit in fairness. I'd still use them time and again,despite the dud. The two before done me well over a year each. £120 a shot.........quids in,i reckon.

[Old_Master]

We stoped selling Shurflo backpacks mid 2006 opting for a simpler wiring system, their had been several problems with failure of the fairly complex Shurflo flow controler not to mention problems with the battery charger. The first original Shurflos we first introduced to the UK in about 2004 seemed less problematic than the latter model, I am unsure why the manufacturing changes were made.

The biggest problem we found in the early days of selling our own range of backpacks that we introduced in 2006 had been the delivery couriers that have managed to smash dozens of battery housings together with a handfull of lids, tanks etc. Thankfully we made some changes at the begining of 2007 to the design and packing and have had very few problems since.

In March/April we will introduce two new backpacks one with a three speed controler and the other with a five speed controler both will use an 80 psi pump that has  less than 0.5% failure problems together with a much improved padded harness.
At the same time a new five speed upright trolley using the same 80psi will be introduced.

[jeff1]

Glyn, you have obviously produced these with the w/c in mind, do you offer a guarantee? if you do can you give me some links or phone numbers and I will add those details to the academy.
Thank you for your valuable in-put.

[jouk45]

glyn that sounds great, where will the switch be located on them,  as you will know  the problems shurflo had with theirs being underneath at the bottom of the backpack,

[Old_Master]

Forgot to say they will all have a voltage meter that will show the level of battery power. The charging socket will have a linked pull out rubber cover to prevent ingress of water into the charging socket.
The on off will be on the side of the units, the five speed is a simple numpty that you turn to what ever level of power you need. The three speed version will have a toggle switch that you flick to the centre then down then back to centre for the three settings.
We already have prototype units made that we are testing ourselves to see if any obvious problems occur. The only negative so far is when the battery is low the variation in flow control is minimal.
We will give a guarantee, at this point of time I cannot say if it will be 12 months for all componants as things like damage to the lids and the type of wear and tear on the padded straps  are difficult to gauge for different users, and if the switches are knocked hard against a hard surface or have tools thrown on top of them when they are in the back of a vehicle they will of course be damaged, batteries are also very difficult to fully guarantee in a commercially used piece of kit as different user will treat them differently.

 Another difficulty in giving a full 12 month gurantee is some of our customers are working on large contract sites and some backpacks will be used by three seperate  teams that work 3 shifts  in 24 hours a day for seven days a week so the unit gets a years hard wear and tear in only four months .
I will do my best to give the best deal that is viable to all customers and ourselves.