[Wayne Thomas]

Thanks for that good reply,
So by tepid do you mean (would you guess) approx 25 degrees temp above the freezing glass ?

Yes Jeff

[SherwoodCleaningSe]

Going back to the original post, maybe it has something to do with the way that the resin is charged.  Most resins are balanced +/- but maybe it was more + or - or maybe it was balanced perfectly when most resins are not.

Simon.

[Sir Squeaky]

Doesn't matter if a window sheets or beads as far as results are concerned.
In fact I've had more bad results from sheeting ones than beading.

The best glass is the sort that bead off almost totally and almost look dry immediately.
It's like water off a duck's back.
I've only got a few like it, but it's perfect every time.

Sheeting just looks better for the customer, because you can still see through it.

[windowwashers]

Doesn't matter if a window sheets or beads as far as results are concerned.
In fact I've had more bad results from sheeting ones than beading.

The best glass is the sort that bead off almost totally and almost look dry immediately.
It's like water off a duck's back.
I've only got a few like it, but it's perfect every time.

Sheeting just looks better for the customer, because you can still see through it.

I agree with you squeaky, I have a few windows that the water runs off near on dry aswell which is great only wish all windows were the same.
Sheeting tends to pull water down pulling anything down with it (which can leave spots, beading one little bit in the beads and again spots.
Ian

[Jeff Brimble]

With there being quite a few topics on sheeting/Iso/Hotwash etc on different forums its difficult to know where to put this reply.
Over on Peters forum Theres a topic about Iso and freezing and how it may help with cleaning the glass/sheeting etc.
Some of the members trialling it or showing an interest are.
Bazzer 933
Stuart MCI
NWH
hwcs
Duke
taffy
scriman
Jason
LWC
DW

My 7am tests this morning on 12 different location, phobic windows that nearly always result in spotting was that they still have spots with 10ml/Litre of Rainwater and ISO added. Using a Monofilament brush and a .8L/min flow.

[twt]

jeff you've mentioned before that you are able to clean windows with very small amounts of water and achieve good results. On windows which spot have you tried using more water to combat the problem. My thinking is what ever is causing the spotting will be in a greater volume of water possible resulting in no spots as the water which usually spots would be diluted if you catch my drift.

[Jeff Brimble]

Thanks Phil, your thinking is "spot on" , yes I have a tap on the brush  to turn the flow up when needed.

[ants]

Doesn't matter if a window sheets or beads as far as results are concerned.
In fact I've had more bad results from sheeting ones than beading.

The best glass is the sort that bead off almost totally and almost look dry immediately.
It's like water off a duck's back.
I've only got a few like it, but it's perfect every time.

Sheeting just looks better for the customer, because you can still see through it.

   

Squeaky,
With the glass that beads and dries fast how do you know when you ve got the dirt of.
I always seem to spend ages on these cos Im not sure whn its clean.In fact Ive started blading them off to save time[if there downstairs.

[Sir Squeaky]

Don't know really. I can just see it.
I guess they never really attract much dust in 4 weeks.

Those with that type of window have been my most satisfied customers with wfp.

[Jeff Brimble]

Blading off the downstairs is a lack of faith in your system, but carry on as many of us do it if we are not sure. Until you build the confidence and experience. Which takes time and faith.

[NWH]

There`s absolutley no point in keeping on blading them off,you just need to give them a few cleans to see if they come good with the pole,nearly all window`s come good in the end except ali framed ones.

[NWH]

Maybe that acetone stuff would be good Jeff,it`s supposed to break down polish.

[Jeff Brimble]

The only way to remove the old type of silicon/petroleum based polish is mechanical abrasion. Problem is that glass is porous and the coating goes deep into the pits of the glass micro surface so as its "down in a hole" you cannot scrub it.    tried acetone.

[frames to panes]

Has anyone checked the ph of their water - it might be pure but it could still be acidic/alcaline or vice versa. In the print trade the purity and acidity were constantly checked whereas we only check the purity, it might also have some bearing on the behaviour of droplets on glass. Isoproponol reduces surface tension and will make the glass wetter it has the effect of flattening the water beads. We used it at ten to twelve percent in cooled pure water. The higher the water temperature the more isoproponal is required to have the desired effect so if you wanted to use the same levels as we used to, you would need 10% of your 650lt tank which would be far too expensive. NWH might be getting good results but with the amount he's using and allowing for evaporation i would doubt they were that much different.

[frames to panes]

On a much simpler note it might just be down to how porus the glass is, the more of a grain it has the wetter it will become whereas the more highly polished it is the faster it will bead. Certain chemicals repel water such as wax,grease and silicone. I wonder what the main ingredient is in waterproofing sprays and Thompsons waterproof coating for bricks.

[Jeff Brimble]

Cheers DJW, NWH and others.
Over on Pros in the A_Z archives section theres an old 4 page topic (July 2004) called "Zap the spots together" so this isnt anything new.
If you cannot put a coating on the glass because it makes the beading problems worse (Rain-X by Penzoil for eg.) and you cannot remove the coating, then you need another solution.

I have been itching to tell someone this but on a lighter note. We have been working on that other solution since May and hope to have it ready for the Cleaning Show, (Lewis Doubtfire knows about it but is sworn to secrecy) We dont have financial backing so are doing it on a shoestring and need to put various protections in place to cover the intelectual rights/patents. The Backpacks, Modular poles etc earned nothing but hopefully with  this one we will earn a small ammount and some recognition.

[L.Doubtfire - The Blade Runner]

Nigel ( NWH) and DJ,regarding isopropanol,your opinions are as different
As `chalk and cheese` I guess.`Squeaks` wether your windows `bead` or `sheet`
Even at 20 foot,how do you know wether that window will dry `spot` free??
Ya don`t,it`s impossible.Like Jeff says,it`s faith and experience.What about if
Your in towns and city centres at 3 am doing office blocks at 60 to 80 feet???
Pitch dark,can`t see a thing.There can be masses of bird mess,you don`t know,
Because ya can`t see a thing!! Am I teaching grandma to suck eggs here or what?
Yes Jeff,I am sworn to secrecy,and a secret it will stay.It`s in it`s infancy,I call
It searching for the holy grail…ie. Clean ya windows and turn phobic glass into
Hydraphlic glass.There again as some previous posts have stated.some fella`s
Prefer phobic to hydrophilic…………………….To each his own I guess.

Lewis Doubtfire Gleem Clean ( The Blade Runner )

[mark dew]

been reading this thread with interest. Jeff are you saying that you have produced a solution that will make all windows sheet? And are you saying that glass that sheets have a less chance of spotting than glass that beads?

[Jeff Brimble]

Yes we have and yes.

[Sir Squeaky]

No thanks, they're miles quicker than sheeting ones which you have to rinse and rinse and then can't tell if they're clean.

With water repellent glass it leaves nothing behind and it's dry in an instant.
It's definately the way to go, and more new houses are being built with it, thank god.