[CVC]

I have a dozen contract cleans. A new member of staff hass had a warning for missing stuff out. Last week she was caught using the office photocopier on one of her jobs and the same week we got a complaint for her other job where they had written "clean me- 02/12/07" in a mirror and it was still there.

Does anyone have a templete I can use to issue her written warnings. I am finding this hard as we have never had to do this before.

Any help would be much appreciated.

[JJdomestics]

Hi

I think the best thing to do is to contact ACAS and they will talk you through what needs to be put into the letter and how to word it so there is no come back on yourself. I have only done this the once (thank goodness) but they were really helpful for me.

[CVC]

Do they charge? If yes what sort of costs are we talking??

[JJdomestics]

No it's a free service. I have got the link for you http://www.acas.org.uk/. Hope this helps

Jo

[CVC]

Thanks for the advise and rapid answers.

[garyj]

I wouldn't bother with a written warning, you should have sacked her on the spot. If she was using their photocopier I presume she was using their paper and toner doing her own stuff and charging you ( in time ) for it. It is theft, so straight out the door. Head first  .

[steve doyle]

Agree with gary,

people shouldn't need telling not to steal. If thats what goes on when new in a job what else are you going to find her doing.

you dont need to play at being a boss, i would just tell her shes on a sticky wicket if i wanted to give her a chance, more likely bye bye (no reason needed in first 12 months)!

steve

[Tim Downer]

I would also think about going through the job specs with that staff member so they are aware of everything that needs to be cleaned, and also a reminder as to the standards of hygiene and cleaning......if after all this they still fail to clean to the job spec cleaning standards......then bye bye!! Buy they do need to be made aware of this from the begining.....maybe you need to create an employees handbook with this all detailed for them.

Tim

[Mike_Boxall]

I wouldn't bother with a written warning, you should have sacked her on the spot. If she was using their photocopier I presume she was using their paper and toner doing her own stuff and charging you ( in time ) for it. It is theft, so straight out the door. Head first  .

You have to be very careful 'sacking people on the spot' before giving them both verbal and written warnings. If you haven't made it entirely clear that this type of conduct is unacceptable then there is likely to be a case for unfair dismissal.

You need to produce a good staff handbook and a formal process for dealing with this type of behavior.

Regards

Mike

[garyj]

I don't think anyone would have the gaul to take it to court if they had been caught red handed using a photocopier.

I view theft as gross misconduct and would definitely have them straight out the door. If the company found out ( and with todays photocopiers logging everything, that's likely ), I would think the contract would be at risk. She sounds a pain anyway, it's a great excuse to see the back of her.

[steve doyle]

You can sack any employee within the first 12 months without the need to justify it.

Their is no need to do the written warnings etc. you can just say "The customer isnt happy with you using their equipment and i need to take you off that job, i havent any other work for you". If you cant be bothered saying all that then "im letting you go" will do!

You dont need to get complicated with this at all.

steve

[J. Deans]

I have never had to sack anyone yet (touch wood) but I know of employers sacking cleaners for using their clients photocopiers. At the end of the day, she has put your contract at risk. If she is prepared to do this sort of thing so early into her employment with you, I would seriously consider losing her before she does your business some real harm.

If she has been with you for less than 31 days, you can sack her on the spot without legally having to give her a weeks notice. After 31 days she is entitled to notice, which would give her plenty of opportunity to 'stitch you up'. The only other alternative is to suspend her for the notice period on full pay. Either way it will cost you, so get rid as soon as possible, then review your diciplinary procedures in case something similar happens again.

I'm sure it will not be easy to sack her, but just think about the damage she could do if you don't. It will also be an indication to your other employess that this sort of thing is taken very seriously.

[steve doyle]

"I'm sure it will not be easy to sack her"


With all due respect I cant see the problem,

 whats hard about "bye bye, theres a weeks pay, have a nice life!"?

[JJdomestics]

ha ha ha i like your attitude I think it's very funny but you will be suprised what some of my cleaners have come out with when faced with the sack, perhaps that is what was meant by not easy. I make sure I have got everything covered before I even think about telling the cleaner.

[Fox]

Have to have my pennies worth!

CVC you said that the client had written 'clean me 02/12/07' on a mirror and it was still there last wk - almost a month later!  Why on earth hadn't you or one of your supervisors seen this?  Or do you not check your sites?  If you have just been leaving the cleaner to it what do you expect, she is going to 'miss stuff' as you put it.  Has she had training and support or was she just 'chucked' on the site and forgot about until you got complaints.  As for using the photocopier yes thats not good but it's hardly the end of the world and if that is the only problem she has caused (other than not cleaning properly through poss lack of training) than a chat with her would be sufficient.

As for sacking people yes steve doyle and J deans are right with the 31 day and twelve month rule and it's not hard to get rid if someone is causing problems but if there is a problem with your management then own up and don't sack a cleaner because of it, use it to put procedures in place so that it soesn't happen again.

Fox

[glenda hollis]

Well Fox, seeing how you said it first i will admit i was thinking the same. Is there an outside chance that someone gave 'permission' for her to use the photocopier? What evidence have you been presented with? Something similar happened to a collegue of mine who was 'caught' making a cup of tea and yet she'd asked one of the office workers who was around at that time, sadly the same person was not around when the cleaner was caught. With regards to the mirror, was it something she knew she had to clean? I am guessing it was but we all know only too well that in many commercial settings it is impossible to do all that is supposed to be done on account of the fact that desks get piled high with papers and books, furniture gets moved in front of other things, things are left in a dangerous manner etc, the list is endless. Tell us what evidence you have been given so far.

[gleaming cleaners]

Hi
i have some cleaning doc's that might help you send me your email adress and i will mail to you

send to justgleaming@ntlworld.com

[garyj]

Think we can presume the company are already cheesed off with the cleaning and would think there are a few people there making noises over what has been written in the mirror, if it has been like that for a month, it must have been grotty in the first place. You are right that the owner takes the ultimate responsibility and it should have been checked by someone.

I have some sites that aren't up to my standard but the customer loves the cleaners so they get away with murder, other sites are pristine and the customer will pick up on the most tiny detail (had a big engineering company phone me once to say a mark had been left on the bottom of a washing up bowel).

Did she have permission to use the photocopier? Unlikely, even if she did, she was still using time you are paying her for to do her own work, at least she can't come up with the excuse that there isn't enough time to do the job, she has time to use the copier so she has time to clean the mirror.

Still say get rid, at the least it will show the customer you are doing something to put the situation right.

See Tim Downers back, where've you been?

[Fox]

Gary everyone knows you are harsh - you would sack someone for taking time to have a pee!

Agree the client will see something being done but they will also see something being done if training is taking place, or at a push I would move her to another site after a good talking too about the photo copier.

One of my cleaners once used a clients photocopier, how did they get found out?  They left the pic of themselves that they were copying in it! lol.  They got a warning and became one of the best site supervisors we have had!

Are there any staff left in your area that will work for you (I know I wouldn't want you as my boss  )

Fox

[steve doyle]

Just like to add that i also agree she shouldent be made a scapegoat (or an escape goat, as i recently read somewhere!!!lol)

Have a look at yourself first (be honest) and whether or not you have done your bit correctly, make a judgement from there.

having said that, i would expect anyone using the photocopier  to know that they shouldent!

If you think you can get her on track (and its worth it) fine. if not "Have a nice life".